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Trump Amplifies Call for "Citizens Arrest" of Judge and Prosecutor in New York Civil Case
(www.meidastouch.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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Remember, guys: defending free speech for Nazis is totally the best way to "preserve democracy"
I really wish more people understood the paradox of tolerance.
Tolerance is a social contract, not an ideal. If someone refuses to adhere to the contract, then they are not entitled to the benefits of it either. Hence, there is no paradox. When we say "be tolerant to all" what we mean is "please adhere to the social contract, and assume everyone else does so, until proven otherwise".
From Wikipedia...
Someone needs to explain to me why that's an absolute/assured (the italicized part).
That seems like one hell of an assumption, and not a foregone conclusion.
It's true the same way that the boxer with one hand tied behind his back will lose a fight. All other things being equal, the side that limits itself will always lose because they deny themselves paths to victory the opposition can use.
HOW we win, matters.
Not when the threat is existential.
I would argue, especially then.
So you're saying a fascist dictatorship is preferable to a democracy that doesn't tolerate fascists? I would say that is objectively false.
No, this is what I'm saying...
THAT we win matters.
You don't win THAT way.
Those who want the benefit of the social contract without adhering to it will be dominant as they have an upperhand.
No, the intolerant won't be dominant, because they will require everyone to follow them to have that power, and they won't be followed.
The false premise doesn't match the reality 'on the ground'.
That’s what people on here take as facts. A paradox on Wikipedia. Get the fuck out of here. No one needs to read that uslesss garbage. Who defines what is or isn’t tolerate? “Nope, your being intolerant of (insert crazy fucking shit) off the the gulags with ya. These people are as bad as their far right counter parts and can’t even see it. Dripping with the same hate that they feel for the “enemy “
Wikipedia lists 17 different references from the last 70 years on this topic. It is not a new concept. It is also literally evident in a variety of places that have tried the absolute free speech approach, such as 4chan.
Your entire comment is either disingenuous or asinine.
4chan is not America. Free Speech seems to work fine in America, we're still here.
And it isn't about absolute free speech, it's about giving everyone a turn at the microphone. You can definitely disagree with what someone's saying, but you should never stop them from trying to say it.
I mean, they should get to say what they want to say.
It's up to us to recognize it as bullshit and rise above it.
Unfortunately reality doesn't work this way. A popular lie beats an unpopular truth. That's a large part of why we can't make any meaningful progress on addressing climate change.
No, no they should not. Nazi speech should be criminalized. Just like yelling Fire! in a crowded theatre. Nazi speech is even more deadly and destructive.
Yeah, they say the same things about pro-trans speech.
The problem is, when you start policing speech, you open up the floodgates for people to pick and choose what is right or wrong to say. If it's okay to ban 'nazi speech,' then what's stopping the next congress from banning 'trans speech' or 'communist speech'?
Nah. It's up to us, as a society, to work together to keep these ideas at bay through discussion. If we try to ban people from sharing these ideas altogether, it will create a Streisand Effect and give them more power than they would otherwise have.
Germany seems to be doing ok with banning it. And the rest of us aren't doing so hot with allowing it.
Criticize Israel for a week straight, here. When your ban is lifted, tell us how much you love absolute free speech.