this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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2009, 2012, and 2014 kind of established that defenders cant get it anymore.
At least its looking like true QB only now, rather than RB being the only non-QB exception.
Donald in 2018 too
Mahomes threw for 50 something TDs that year as a second year starter. He was going to win that award no matter how good a defensive player was
Weren’t they a below average defense in 2018?
The reason it’s a discussion this year is the lack of elite QB play. It’s not comparable to those seasons
Poor kirkland
There has been 3 instances in over 60 years where it hasn’t been a QB or RB that won the award, and one of those is a kicker in a strike season. Nfl has almost effectively phased out the workhorse RB with all their rule changes towards the passing game for the past 25 years, so it is effectively only QB that can win it now. You can probably find comparable seasons amongst those 65 years.
A lot of this could be redundant, if American sports would just have an award called “player of the year/season” instead.
I wasn't even alive but John Elway winning in 1987 with 23 total TD Is still upsetting, Jerry Rice had 23 total as well.
Literally only way I see a non QB winning anymore is if a RB breaks the Season TD record , or a defender shatters the Sack/Interception record. And i mean Shatters, by like 5 or 6
I honestly think it would take a 27 sack season AND no standout QB for a defender to win.
Is it that crazy if Garrett conceivably gets 23, they have the best defense in at least a decade by most advanced stats, and the QB field at the end of the season is as bleak as it looks now? He’d definitely start getting votes, if only as a protest
Yes. Bland just set the record for pick 6s in a season. Mccaffrey might score 25 to 30 tds. Hill might have 2k receiving yds.
He would need score som tds or start going jj watt and swatting passes as well
All records need to be shattered anymore to not have that (17 games)* on it
That bland guy on the cowboys should win tbh. And I’m a giants fan. I hate everything
You can say that all you want but if the Cowboys were faced with keeping either Bland or Dak, you'd make fun of them for ditching Dak. 5 pick sixes is cool, but in every game he's had a pick six, they won by double digits. Sure, momentum is a thing, but take last night's for an example. They win that game whether Bland plays or not. You can't guarantee that of Dak doesn't play.
It should be Most Outstanding Player, position agnostic, which would be the player who most far exceeds his peers.
There’s already Offensive and defensive player of the year
Yes, and that is not the same.
Forgetting salary cap for a minute, if the Browns could trade Myles Garrett for Patrick Mahomes straight up, right now, do you think they would hesitate for literally even a second?
Yeah?
In no world do the browns not immediately take that trade
What about the world where they already have like $250M tied up at QB and can’t afford it?
That’s based on his performance in other seasons though more than this one
Is the mvp now, who would you trade for in an instant? Cuz if so mahomes should be working on his 7th straight mvp
Who would be better off, the browns defense without Myles, or the Chiefs offense without Mahomes? There is one objectively true answer here.
The chiefs without mahomes? I’m thinking a few other quarterbacks could average 5 ppg in the second half. The chiefs stil have a top 5 defense. The browns have a bottom 5 offense and are on their 3rd qb of the year.
If you would instantly trade Player B for Player A, then wouldn’t you say that would make Player A more valuable?
Okay but that’s not how, not has it ever been how the mvp works. Again, if it was, mahomes would have every mvp since he started playing. You think the ravens in 2019 woulda said no to a Lamar for mahomes?
Or the packers in 2020/21? That’s not how it works. You still have to perform and the chiefs are scoring 5 ppg in the second half right now.
If you give the chiefs a league average defense, they’re prolly .500 or worse right now. If you give the browns a league average offense, they’re prolly 9-1
See I think JJ losing the MVP in 2012 and 2014 is kind of looked back upon now as missed opportunities, maybe it’s just the kind of media I follow but I think if they had to do it over again a lot of people would have changed their votes.
Also there’s never quite been a season like this where the progress of defenses have been so stark, and the MVP field from the QB position has been so bad. The story of the season is that defenses finally stepped up to the plate after years of what seemed like exponential growth on offense, and Garrett is the best defensive player in the league on the best defense in the league
Rodgers was more valuable in 2014 than JJ Watt. He did more for his team to win games
Unbelievable to me that people think JJ should have been MVP on a team that didn’t make the playoffs.
A lot of people have this thing about the mvp where they don’t care about the valuable part of the award and therefore don’t care if the guys team misses the playoffs it’s weird
I think people REALLY want a defensive player to win MVP, to the point where they just ignore any logic around it.
it’s not that they don’t care, it’s that you can be valuable even if your team is shit. If your team is an 0-16 team without you and you carry them to 8-8 without the ball in your hands every offensive play you’re probably playing out of your mind
According to pro football JJ wasn’t even the most valuable defender that year (Sherman). It’s pretty hard to argue against a RB that came within 9 yards of breaking the single season rushing record while also helping his team win 7 more games.
Do you mean "Orange Peanut"
2014 Rodgers deserved it over Watt, that was an insane season he put up. Much better season than any qb in the league right now is having
Yeah it’s not about how good the defensive player was necessarily in a given year. It’s the combination of a lack of clear cut number 1 QB + insane defensive player this year.
He was basically the clear cut best qb and had the upper hand over Romo
Romo deserved it over Rodgers.
Romo was great, but Rodgers did so much more. Plus 38/5 beats out 34/9 any day of the week
Watts team didn’t even make the playoffs. Browns are at 3 wins max right now without Myles.
They should accept that MVP is a "QB of the year" award and create next to it a new award (something like "most outstanding player") for the best player of the season, regardless of position.
Or make a qb of the year award and start giving players that aren't quarterbacks the MVP.
Thing is, the best QB will always be the "most valuable" player, in the current NFL, over any other position, no matter how outstanding the best Edge, WR or RB of the season might be. QB is a position of such outsized impact on the team, there's no other parallel in any other team sport.
The only way to properly recognise and reward excellence in other positions is to get the concept of "valuable" out of the way.
Brees and manning had some crazy seasons in 2009
If JJ Watt didn't win it then a defender never will again.
He isn’t having a historic outlier great season though. It’s not like he is also scoring tds, knocking down a ton of passes, forcing a lot of fumbles, or has ints. He is having a great yr, but you can make a strong case he don’t even the DPOY
I 100% believed that JJ watt deserved MVP in 2014 he was a monster that year sure the Texans sucked but the way he played that year was a whole different level
If Tyreek hits 2k yards, then give it to him lol.