this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
493 points (87.7% liked)

Asklemmy

43810 readers
1 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Religions are mostly just popularized conspiracy theories. Believing in God is about as realistic as believing the world is flat.

[–] polysexualstick@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

But it's not about that for many people. For many people, being religious is more about finding strength and peace in that kind of guided spirituality

[–] MenacingPerson@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

False peace through a false god

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Believe is a powerful thing I would ague even if what you belief is wrong if that belief brings you peace it is not a false peace.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The same thing can be said about most conspiracy theories. People want to believe in aliens because then we aren't alone and they feel more comfortable, for example. The biggest issue I have is it leads them to do things that are un-helpful for the rest of humanity.

[–] dgbbad@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But c'mon.... There ARE aliens. Just maybe not here necessarily. But somewhere, there are 100% aliens.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 years ago

Probably true, but we all know what we're talking about here...

[–] ziggurat@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And for some finding religion is about having a reason to invade another country

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

When you're so brainwashed you replace the word "oil" with "religion"

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

exactly. dont confuse genuine faith with religious grifters

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And explaining what happens when you die. Which by its very definition nobody alive can know

[–] Zacryon@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Of course we can. We have means to observe the dying process. There is already a lot of scientific knowledge on that topic.

[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

From the outside, yes. We don't have anything information about the post-death experience.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Because there is no "experience" after death. You just start to rot.

[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

And what scientific evidence has there ever been suggesting that this is the case? We can't even scientifically evaluate whether another living being has any conscious experience.

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Believing in God is about as realistic as believing the world is flat.

That is a bad comparison IMO. We have piles and piles of hard evidence the Earth is round. Saying the Earth is flat is just factually incorrect at this point.

But the existence of God. I would argue we have no hard evidence of God's existence nor do we have hard evidence that God doesn't exist. As far as science is concerned it is still a theory.

On top of that what makes a god a God there are multiple definitions of a God. If simulation theory is correct and we are all just in a simulation would be people outside of the simulation be our Gods? Or if an extremely advanced civilization existed would they be Gods to us? Or If we as humans advanced enough could we become Gods our self.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.de 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

That is a bad comparison IMO. We have piles and piles of hard evidence the Earth is round. Saying the Earth is flat is just factually incorrect at this point.

We also have a lot of evidence that snakes can't speak, people can't turn plain water into wine, walk on the water and so on.

But the existence of God. I would argue we have no hard evidence of God's existence nor do we have hard evidence that God doesn't exist.

Claiming something which can neither be proven or disproven is what constitutes a pseudoscience. By that logic I could claim that we are in fact giant pink elefants hopping around on the moon, while imagining our reality as we currently think to perceive it. Since you can't disprove that, I must be right. Or am I not?

As far as science is concerned it is still a theory.

No. A scientific theory can be proven or disproven, while the idea of a God, as interpreted in most religions, can not. Thereby constituting a pseudoscience. And thus, it's not a scientific theory.

On top of that what makes a god a God there are multiple definitions of a God.

I suppose in the context of the parent comment the abrahamic God is meant, as interpreted by Christians, Jews and Muslims.

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We also have a lot of evidence that snakes can’t speak, people can’t turn plain water into wine, walk on the water and so on.

If I am remembering my stories correctly the snake wasn't a normal snake but more of a representation of Satan. And I think god turned the water into wine and walked on water. We aren't talking about an average person. Neither Satan nor God is around to let us do some experiments on.

Claiming something which can neither be proven or disproven is what constitutes a pseudoscience. By that logic I could claim that we are in fact giant pink elefants hopping around on the moon, while imagining our reality as we currently think to perceive it. Since you can’t disprove that, I must be right. Or am I not?

Yeah fair enough but my point still stands that comparison between god and flat earth is still a bad comparison. Considering the Earth is here right now, and we can experiment on it.

[–] IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Also, the sanke wasnt a snake until AFTER Yahweh found out about the fruit salad thing

[–] IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

I'm really tired of that asshole god taking up all the oxygen. I am not religious and do not believe in any supernatural veings but if there were such a thing, the Japanese got it right with Shinto

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

The Abrahamic religions do not have a monopoly on the concept of God. The irrationality of their particular fables, talking snakes and walking on water and all the behavioral quirks they claim God has expressed, has nothing to do with the concept itself.

Let's say I popularized the idea that electricity is really just tiny pixies dancing around, and I came up with all manner of personality traits and stories to go along with them. Let's say millions, billions of people embraced my pixie theory, and it mutated over time into schismatic alternatives with their own traits and stories. Do the ridiculous things now ascribed to electricity, so pervasively that most people picture little pixies when they hear the words, prove that electricity doesn't exist?

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree with the first sentence, seriously disagree with the second. The shape of the Earth is a testable hypothesis, we have the technology to just go look.

As you go down the rabbit hole of consciousness and existence itself, with a purely rational and materialist mindset, the most reasonable and conservative hypotheses approach the descriptions of deity. Certainly the more specific claims of various religions are as you described, conspiracy theories, but the entire concept? Wholesale dismissal of the generalized God hypothesis strikes me as evidence of rationality applied incompletely, arbitrarily cut short.

[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Here's one of them there conspiracy theorists I was talking about.

[–] Uebercomplicated@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What a superb example of hypocrisy. Bro agrees with you, explains, however, that scientifically speaking your analogy is incorrect, and then you proceed to go against precisely the science you were idolizing earlier.

I am an atheist. My mother is Catholic. She is Catholic, because sometimes she needs mental comfort. Religion can be very therapeutic, a community and someone/-thing to prey to are things that comfort most humans. Note, my mother does not believe what it says in the Bible word-for-word, she believes in metaphors. Don't be a jack-ass to these people, they have not harmed you. Be a jack-ass to the people who start spouting entitled crap and try to murder people.

[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

His believe that science points towards a diety is of conspiracy level bullshit to me sure maybe there is some chance but its not overwhelmingly true. If there is a god it likely does not follow the fables written in any religious text.

It's an opinion he has based on no or misguided facts just like many conspiracy theories. Yes there is a key difference in that you can disprove that the earth is flat but there are other conspiracies that are not easily disproven similar to how it's hard to disprove the existence of a god, I put them into the same box, they and I am assuming you don't put them in the same box. Sure I could have probably made a larger explanation but I was probably busy in the moment or otherwise didn't feel like it.

Conscience is not limited to Humans, Humans are not special. Why would that ever point to there being a god?

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Here's one of those who arbitrarily stops using rationality I was talking about. What is consciousness made of?

[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nuerons, and the small electrical signals that pass between them. Also religion and there being a god are two different things. The Bible can be easily disproven just like flat earth.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Notice the top comment compared belief in god specifically to flat earth theory, hence the structure of my response.

As to your hypothesis, I didn't ask about brain activity, I asked about consciousness itself, the subjective experience. It's still very much an open question.

[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Oh yeah I forgot the good old adage that everything that can't be clearly explained must be a God's work.