I’m not skeptical per se. I’ve just been propagandized so fucking much—I grew up watching those propagandocumentaries on the National Geographic Channel about the DPRK, etc., fr that was what I watched instead of cartoons lol.

Pretend I’m a lib who you’re trying to convince, or something. In addition to calming this feeling in my gut like something isn’t making sense, I want to be able to make this argument, myself.

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[–] EnsignRedshirt@hexbear.net 74 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One of the most helpful things for understanding this, at least in my experience, is studying how fundamentally undemocratic liberal democracies are in any practical sense. Public policy doesn’t match public sentiment. Huge numbers of people are disenfranchised, effectively and literally. Political parties hold immense authority over who has a practical chance of holding any given elected office. Plenty of positions are appointed without democratic process. That’s to say nothing about the fact that private interests, which are not democratic, are in control of most of the economy.

Others can speak to the relative democratic nature of the Bad Countries, but I think that it’s helpful to do a closer analysis of whether the ostensibly legitimate democracies even really qualify as democratic in the first place when they don’t produce democratic results, in either legitimacy or practical outcomes.

[–] Doubledee@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

Yeah I think this is critical. It gets you to a point where you can actually think seriously about other systems and what they actually do, rather than an instinctive comparison to bourgeois electoralism that we are accustomed to. There's plenty of room to question how open and responsive and democratic other states are, I think, but it has to be done from a position where you aren't just asking how closely they resemble Parliament or Congress or whatever.