this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
30 points (73.4% liked)
Programming
20830 readers
121 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't think that you, me and OP have different values on this issue, actually? We all agree that the state is supposed to provide us with a structure to live in that we couldn't have on our own, and as payment for this safety net, we contribute taxes. My and OP's argument is that with the current projection of the economy and population growth, the state cannot provide the current generation of tax payers with the structures and support that we will eventually need, and therefore many of us would rather pay lower taxes and lose the benefits, because we won't be getting them anyway. We know what's coming and we don't want to be the ones "holding the bag" when the system collapses.
I'm trying to explain OP's point to the Americans in this thread who don't understand that European social security systems are currently under severe strain and are on the road to collapse, and how OP feels to have to sacrifice so much of his potential income to support a failing system. The 80s stereotypes of reliable, high-quality social security no longer hold true in Europe in 2023.
I think its hard for some americans to understand that welfare in Europe is not an utopia. I personally believe the estate needs to provide help and support to citizens including healthcare and basic education at a minimum. Ideally some basic help for people that are unable to work and whatever is needed for people to not be on the street.
My biggest issue is as it is right now I can see how much money I have been putting over the years and how much extra money I still need to put on top privately to have a quality of life for things such as pension, salary insurance, etc. So while almost half my salary goes out as taxes I still need to contribute on my own to private companies. On top of that I can see people that can take advantage of the system and between the high taxes and all the help you can get (house help, unemployment, lids, etc.) theres people not working that get almost as much as an engineer working full time. I think something is off.
But this has nothing to do with the post of why american companies choose to pay more than european ones.
I brought up the social system because you can see that everyone in this thread arguing against you is saying that your "excellent welfare system" is the reason why your income is lower than the corresponding American programmer's. The massive taxation is obviously a big factor to your reduced income, but let's look away from that for a bit and just focus on the American companies.
American companies in America pay more because the costs of doing business in America are much lower and there is a greater availability of loans and funding.
American companies in Europe pay more because they have the advantages listed above that local European companies don't have and they have the resources to invest in a global expansion.
That's it. That's the answer.