this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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[–] lewis6991@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is not a "war", it is a "special military operation".

This is not a "coup", it is a "march for justice".

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Everyone tries to control the narrative, this is completely normal. Anti-terrorist operation, peacekeeping mission, special military operation, march for X. I don't remember someone who just said "yep, we are invading X".

In this case both Prigozhin and Putin (or the establishment) are trying to control the narrative to gather support from "patriots". Saying you are making a coup sounds antigonizing, while saying you are marching for justice, because it's the government who has betrayed the people does not.

[–] easeKItMAn@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] green_dragon@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

People are tired of this war. Putin wanted to secure food reserves and have an open access sea port for his military; however he wasn't honest as to his reasons why; understandably so. Given this the Russian public doesn't see the actual geopolitical value of the conflict. This was inevitable. If Russia couldn't play nice with the rest of the world as their money mostly comes from oil and gas; which we are moving away from. Let them pay for their crimes.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

25,000 troops marching on Moscow. How many does the Kremlin have not already in Ukraine?

[–] Thepinyaroma@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

How many do they have not in Ukraine... Who are also willing to kill fellow Russians? If the average Russian military sentiment is, "Eh, let them through" this could be huge.

Plus a lot of the "Royal Guard" may be well-connected rich kids who are even less inclined to fight.

Way too soon to know for sure, but. 🍿

[–] dustojnikhummer@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Yep, it depends if Russian military is loyal to Putin or not.

[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Can someone please explain what's going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?

[–] certain_people@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner's boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.

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[–] UniquesNotUseful@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he'd take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.

[–] andrei_chiffa@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Generally, I don't like to gloat, but I did call that one ~ June 5th over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/140qkwu/destructions_incursions_%C3%A9vacuations_dans_la/jmyndp3/?context=3; in French because it was on r/France).

It actually is much worse than it seems - I did a write up over on Mastodon to explain why and how (https://mastodon.social/@andrei_chiffa/110599724720727202). The TLDR is that cities taken by Wagner mercs will be hard to retake without leveling, all internal protection troops are either tied or were lost in Ukraine, and mercs themselves have nothing to loose and all the revenge to take.

[–] YuYuHunter@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Tu avais raison.

It's very strange how things are going right now. The fact that they are quite effortlessly moving hundreds of kilometers through Russian territory is quite telling.

[–] i_simp_4_tedcruz@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I would like to submit "Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance" for my Bingo card.

[–] jcit878@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

the latest resolution from NATO didnt say Russia cant nuke itself...

[–] SuddenDownpour@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Any nuke west of the Urals is likely to provoke radiation that reaches NATO, and nukes east of the Urals would be, uh, insignificant most likely.

[–] Thepinyaroma@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Launching a nuke would have to be the dumbest thing Putin could do. A huge chunk of NATO must already be salivating at the internal chaos.

I bet Polish social media is on fire right now.

[–] boilingpenguin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

If there's one thing I've learned from my history classes it's that power vacuums (or even perceived power vacuums) and the ensuing instability always end well for everyone involved....

/s

[–] innkeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Ukrainian army called ...they need fresh supplies of popcorn...

[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

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[–] SquishyPandaDev@yiffit.net 3 points 2 years ago (10 children)

Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.

Remember, it doesn't matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.

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[–] JerkyIsSuperior@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe."

Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas" - zeppo, a Lemmy Member

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.

[–] dimspace@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Especially when you then allow that mercenary group to release and recruit 30,000 prisoners

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[–] MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

This could definitely be a powder keg moment in some way.

[–] lycanrising@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (7 children)

my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card

[–] Double_A@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I kinda had it on it when Prigozhin started releasing videos of him acting as a reasonable person to gain popular support.

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[–] green_dragon@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

My father who is Russian has been talking about Wagner turning on Russia for the past 2 months. Dogs of war. So my bingo card has been stamped.

[–] BobKerman3999@feddit.it 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hmm not sure it's against Russia, more like against the bureaucrats that stole his ammunition

[–] lycanrising@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

fair enough, it’s an important distinction

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[–] political_avacado@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.

[–] YuYuHunter@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

If they would merely keep Rostov, a city with one million citizens, this would already be an enormous problem for Russia. But the Wagner group is going all-out, and I strongly doubt whether they'll be able to oust the Russian government.

[–] tym@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Supposedly they've already agreed to retreat to Belarus? Shortest coup ever, or a dog n pony show.

[–] Neekaneeka@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 2 years ago

Link dead/broken

[–] Clbull@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (8 children)

If true, this is a major setback for Putin.

I don't think this little rebellion has a chance to overthrow Putin. Maybe if all of Wagner rebelled?

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