this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2025
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[–] Subscript5676@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Let’s make us all feel worse… courtesy by NJB https://youtu.be/HhQxNHrD6fA

I know some people absolutely dislike the guy for essentially dumping Canada and emigrated to the Netherlands, but seriously, if I go through the episodes he did: trying hard at advocacy and planning hard to improve the city, only to be met with unreasonable car-brained suburbanites throwing absolutely ridiculous arguments against the plans and essentially pouring cold water all over everyone, all in the face of facts, and you end up having to just watch things go to the shitters like you expected, you flip the table, and you leave. I can say that cause I’ve went through something similar. You end up not being able to just stay at that place anymore, no matter how much you loved it.

[–] Alchalide@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

Before even fully reading or opening the link: notjustbikes

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

No, this is just bullshit.

As I commented on your other post:

Population: Chengdu over 20 million vs. under 3 million in Toronto.

The maps above also seem to be differently scaled.

Also, the fact that it has technologically developed fast in the past decades, as compared to Canada that has developed steadily in the past century, is not really the gotcha OP seems to imply it is.

That said, it’s perfectly possible that public transport in Toronto leaves much to be desired - without pointlessly comparing it to Chengdu.

[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Your comparing the population of the city of Toronto (631km^2) to the city of chengdu (14,378km^2) if your talking about unfair comparisons. The metro areas are closer in population chengdu (16m) vs Toronto (7m), so about double, and chengdu more then doubled Torontos metro construction.

Also If your talking about metro construction it might be better to look at production in general rather then population. Lagos in Nigeria has a similar population size to chengdu and the same sort of rapid growth over the past couple decades but nowhere near the same metro

If you look at gdp though it makes more sense, Lagos ($102b) has about a third the gdp of chengdu ($330b), which is about the size of Toronto ($473b). Even if you adjust for PPP chengdu ($707b), so similar to the population its a bit less then twice.

Chengdu is using its production capacity to build metros while Toronto is not. If Toronto chose to devote the same percent of there resources that chengdu has towards its public transit it could build a similar map to the above.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not pointless. All of the western world has been in regressive austerity mode of stagnation while Asia is booming because outsourcing is treason that enabled corrupt mismanagement of banking, education, healthcare, labor, supply chains, and housing. The cost of living has been the casualty. The cost of living has crushed birthrates and made workers permanently uncompetitive. The quality of life in China is far better by comparison. Fools try to propagandize rural poverty in China, but that same rural and urban poverty exists and is far worse in North America. The USA has 700,000 feral humans sent back to live in the wild of urban hell as a caste of animals. China is the benchmark of what could have been. It has its issues like everywhere, but take off the mask of propaganda nonsense and just look at people that get invited to a major city for business and post about it. Be unbiased and unprejudiced and you will clearly see the average person there has a far better quality of life.

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 9 points 2 days ago

I still prefer to live in a (however flawed) democracy. So, not the USA, not China.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

.... You think that living in China, under the CCP, somehow provides a better quality of life than living in North America?

You lost me chief.

Their infrastructure might put ours to shame, and I'm not going to say that everyone lives in poverty there, there's billions of people in China; but when it comes to general happiness and quality of life? Nah. I don't believe you, and I don't agree with that assessment/opinion.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago

I can respect your opinion for sure. I don't think China is some kind of utopia. This is a mild curiosity I have had for years. Like watching some of the expat stuff out of China on YouTube, but I go much deeper on this. I am into hobby hardware culture to the point where I have encountered stories of people around Shenzhen in the open source/reverse engineering/hardware security scopes. These people often talk about peripheral aspects of life that are not intended as any kind of politically charged conversation or have intent but do reflect a raw truth. In the space of hardware junk, we largely live in a surveillance state in North America too. The main difference is the disclosure and how obvious these systems are in practice. People volunteer the same information or share it unwittingly. Those that do not, unwittingly step into the lens of a closer security monitoring scope.

China is presently in a position very much like the USA was in 1950. They have a tremendous capacity to expand and a domestic consumer market poised to massively expand. The Chinese are very frugal consumers or have been, but that is starting to change. If they become the consumers that they have every potential to become, China will boom on an unprecedented level entirely from within while we remain irrelevant and stagnate. From what I have seen, skilled workers in China are well paid and valued far more than in the English world. I'm not talking about the contract manufacturing slave like systems that are the product of western firms. I'm talking about the Chinese domestic brands that export products to compete with low quality venture capital contract manufactured crap they demand for exploitation. China is more than capable and willing to produce whatever quality goods people will purchase. They are accustomed to having far more choice in their domestic market than anything in the west. There you can buy anything from the raw castings to make a farm tool yourself all the way up to a robotic combine harvester. We often only see low quality garbage as consumers and are far too stupid to check our prejudice against the fact that all of our other branded quality products were also made in China.

Ultimately, watching passively from the periphery, yeah I would rather be Chinese right now. They have a much better potential future for the next century. The cost of living and particularly housing will never be equalised with Asia without causing complete economic collapse. There is no meritocratic social structure in the western sphere. Most wealth is inherited. Business acumen is not hereditary. The only means of maintaining the hierarchical wealth caste of the chronically incompetent wealthy is through exploitation. You own nothing now. All goods are leveraged using exploitation by their true owners. Information passes through the bottlenecks of two web crawlers, Microsoft's and Google's. Every single query you make passes through one of these two either directly or indirectly. They are not deterministic either. Two identical searches by two different people will have different results. There are less than a dozen people in control of all corporate news media. You cannot have real democracy if the citizen lacks access to all information, unfiltered, with a right to skepticism, the right to discuss openly, and the right to be wrong. Citizens must be autonomous with self determinism and fully informed or democracy is a meaningless label. You do not have such freedom. Even the device you are likely using now has tools running in the background capable of filtering and monitoring you. These devices are built and sold forcing your implicit trust, but trust is fundamentally undemocratic authoritarianism. Stealing your right to place trust where you deem necessary or prudent was the coup that killed democracy long ago.

[–] chellewalker@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 days ago

Don't worry, there's a new line coming, and I'm sure this time won't be delayed like last time... and the time before that... and the time before that... and Jesus, this was meant to open in 2020?

[–] cobwoms@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Happy cake day!

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Chengdu went from 14 million to 21 million.

Toronto went from 2,6 million to 3 million.

Yeah...

[–] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Which justifies a whole line being erased from existence...

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 days ago

More just makes a point that these two might not be directly comparable

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Well, when the state can just do things, it's amazing what you can achieve. Also, they have a massive population in comparison.

[–] BlackVenom@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Agreed... But at least your transit system is fairly nice. Subway could def do more than go up and down though.