this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2025
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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

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So seeing the reaction on lesswrong to Eliezer's book has been interesting. It turns out, even among people that already mostly agree with him, a lot of them were hoping he would make their case better than he has (either because they aren't as convinced as him, or they are, but were hoping for something more palatable to the general public).

This review (lesswrong discussion here), calls out a really obvious issue: Eliezer's AI doom story was formed before Deep Learning took off, and in fact was mostly focusing on more GOFAI than neural networks, yet somehow, the details of the story haven't changed at all. The reviewer is a rationalist that still believes in AI doom, so I wouldn't give her too much credit, but she does note this is a major discrepancy from someone that espouses a philosophy that (nominally) features a lot of updating your beliefs in response to evidence. The reviewer also notes that "it should be illegal to own more than eight of the most powerful GPUs available in 2024 without international monitoring" is kind of unworkable.

This reviewer liked the book more than they expected to, because Eliezer and Nate Soares gets some details of the AI doom lore closer to the reviewer's current favored headcanon. The reviewer does complain that maybe weird and condescending parables aren't the best outreach strategy!

This reviewer has written their own AI doom explainer which they think is better! From their limited description, I kind of agree, because it sounds like the focus on current real world scenarios and harms (and extrapolate them to doom). But again, I wouldn't give them too much credit, it sounds like they don't understand why existential doom is actually promoted (as a distraction and source of crit-hype). They also note the 8 GPUs thing is batshit.

Overall, it sounds like lesswrongers view the book as an improvement to the sprawling mess of arguments in the sequences (and scattered across other places like Arbital), but still not as well structured as they could be or stylistically quite right for a normy audience (i.e. the condescending parables and diversions into unrelated science-y topics). And some are worried that Nate and Eliezer's focus on an unworkable strategy (shut it all down, 8 GPU max!) with no intermediate steps or goals or options might not be the best.

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[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I'm still not sure if they actually grasp the totalitarian implications of going ham on tech companies and research this way. He sure doesn't get called out about his 'solutions' that imply that some sort of world government has to happen that will also crown him Grand Central Planner of All Technology.

It's possible they just believe the eight [specific consumer electronic goods] per household is doable, and at worst equally authoritarian with the tenured elites snubbing their noses at HBD research.

[–] istewart@awful.systems 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You thought a right-and-proper Communist Five-Year Plan couldn't also be a self-insert fanfic? Hold Yud's beer

[–] swlabr@awful.systems 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

did you hear about Yudoslavia? They have this Eight GPU policy, if a household is about to have another GPU and they find it can’t run Crysis at max settings at 60fps, they leave it outside for the wolves. But this might just be Yudophobic propaganda

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 9 points 1 week ago (5 children)

In Eliezer's "utopian" worldbuilding fiction concept, dath ilan, they erased their entire history just to cover up the any mention of any concept that might inspire someone to think of "superintelligence" (and as an added bonus purge other wrong-think concepts). The ~~Philosopher Kings~~ Keepers have also discouraged investment and improvement in computers (because somehow, despite now holding any direct power and the massive financial incentives and dath ilan being described as capitalist and libertarian, the Keepers can just sort of say their internal secret prediction market predicts bad vibes from improving computers too much and everyone falls in line). According to several worldbuiding posts, dath ilan has built an entire secret city that gets funded with 2% of the entire world's GDP to solve AI safety in utter secrecy.

[–] bitofhope@awful.systems 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

In my ideal version of Omelas there's a secret institution where people like me are given vast power and wealth to think about how to solve the tortured child issue.

[–] dgerard@awful.systems 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

tell me you didn't subject yourself to glowfic

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

glowfic: it's like a forum, but worse(tm)

[–] bitofhope@awful.systems 7 points 1 week ago

Glowfic sounds like fan fiction written by CIA agents.

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 5 points 1 week ago

Where else am I supposed to fine deep analyses of the economic implications of 1st level wizards and clerics on an early modern setting? ~~and analyses of Intelligence score distributions across the nations of Golarion?~~

[–] V0ldek@awful.systems 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

In Eliezer’s “utopian” worldbuilding fiction concept, dath ilan

In Eliezer's sweet fucking what now?

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 6 points 1 week ago (9 children)

It would be only light cringey if he kept it as a fiction writing project not strongly linked to his other writings. But as Architeuthis says, he not only links to it frequently, he cites it like it was a philosophy paper or something that obviously everyone should have read. Example from our old reddit discussions: https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/x3pihv/to_be_fair_you_have_to_have_a_very_high_iq_to/

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 6 points 1 week ago

There are probably some downright horrifying things in Yud's dath-ilangations, but I bounce off the format every time I try to read it, so I won't be the one to find them. I am OK with this.

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[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That he cites as if it were a philosophy paper, to non-rationalists.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yep, from what I can tell second hand dath ilan world building definitely skews towards it doesn't count as totalitarianism if the enforced orthodoxy is in line with my Obviously Objectively Correct and Overdetermined opinions.

[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It is funny that this is the best Yud, with an IQ of 191, can come up with.

[–] swlabr@awful.systems 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Thanks for the lore, and sorry that you had to ingest all that at some point.

Like a lot of sci-fi that I will comment on without having read, that sounds like a Dune ripoff (that I also have not read). Except, rather than "ok we tried the whole AI thing and it turned out bad", Yud is saying "my world is smarter because they predicted AI would be bad, so they just didn't try it, neener neener neener!"

Also, iterating on the name origins of "dath ilan," as I've said before, it's an anagram of Thailand. But I have a new hypothesis. It's formed from "Death Island" minus the letters "ESD". What could this mean?!?!?! Electrostatic discharge? "Eek, Small Dragon?" "Eliezer Sudden Death?" The abyss pondering continues...

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

OG Dune actually had some complex and layered stuff to say about AI before the background lore was retconned to dollar store WH40K by the current handlers of the IP.

There was no superintelligence, thinking machines were gatekept by specialists who formed entrenched elites, overreliance to them was causing widespread intellectual stagnation, and people were becoming content with letting unknowable algorithms decide on matters of life and death.

The Butlerian Jihad was first and foremost a cultural revolution.

[–] V0ldek@awful.systems 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It was very much a Luddite movement that succeeded

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean the aftermath of Buterlian Jihad eventually lead to brutal feudalism that lasted a really long time and halted multiple lines of technological and social development, so I wouldn't exactly call it a success for the common person.

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[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Wasn't there a bit in the OG Dune lore where the person the Jihad was named after actually didn't want to start a Jihad? (I think that was retconned into 'they sneakily did try to become a martyr to start the war' bit, which sort of messes with the themes of Dune that even lofty goals can have horrible consequences, see Paul).

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

The author certainly wants you to know that finding yourself as the head of a revolutionary movement means very little with regards to your abilities to steer it, but I don't remember.

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[–] scruiser@awful.systems 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Thanks for the lore, and sorry that you had to ingest all that at some point.

Ironically, one of the biggest lore drops about dath ilan happens in a story I initially thought at the time was a parody of rationalists and the concept of dath ilan (Eliezer used a new penname for the story). The main dath ilan character (isekai'd into an Earth mostly similar to our own but with magic and uh.. other worldbuilding conceits I won't get into here) jumps to absurd wild conclusion throughout basically every moment of the story, and unlike HJPEV is actually wrong about basically every conclusion she jumps to. Of course, she's a woman, and it comes up towards the ending that she is below average for dath ilan intelligence (but still above the Earth average, obviously), so don't give Eliezer too much credit for allowing a rationalist character to be mostly wrong for once.

I don't know how he came up with the name... other fanfic writers in rationalist-adjacent space have complained about his amateurish attempts at conlanging, so there probably isn't a sophisticated conlang explanation about phonemes involved. You might be on the right track guessing at weird anagrams?

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 11 points 1 week ago

other fanfic writers in rationalist-adjacent space have complained about his amateurish attempts at conlanging

that feeling when the chess club shoves you into a locker

[–] istewart@awful.systems 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

other worldbuilding conceits I won’t get into here

My invite-only internal prediction market is offering good odds that this is referring to either math pets or tentacles, and a solid parlay opportunity on it being both combined

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I can smell the 'rape (play) is the best kind of sex actually' from over here.

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 7 points 1 week ago

You are close! It is a bdsm AU (inspired by an Archive of Our Own Trend of writing alternate universe settings of a particular flavor), i.e. everyone identifies as "Dominant" or "Submissive", and that identification is more important than gender in most ways. Ironically the dath ilan character is the one freaked out by this.

[–] swlabr@awful.systems 8 points 1 week ago

(Eliezer used a new penname for the story).

Stop trying to make dath ilan happen, Yud.

HJPEV

I didn’t what this meant initially. “HJP” pointed me toward “harry james potter” but I couldn’t figure out “EV,” so ofc my gutter brain decided this was “Handjob Penis Envy Vagina”. But no, it’s just “HJP Evans Verres”, Verres being HJPEV’s adopted dad.

so don’t give Eliezer too much credit

He has a credit score of 250 from this (imagine me holding two thumbs up at myself) ratings agency.

I don’t know how he came up with the name

Yeah his naming is wack. I’m guessing that Yud went with “Verres” for HJP’s nonbiodad because it’s close to “veritas”, the latin word for truth. But searching “verres” gives the latin word for boar, lol. And also Gaius Verres, a notoriously bad magistrate according to wikipedia.

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[–] gerikson@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

This comment is gold:

I particularly agree with the point about the style being much more science-y than I'd expected, in a way that surely filters out large swathes of people. I'm assuming "people who are completely clueless about science and are unable to follow technical arguments" are just not the target audience. To crudely oversimplify, I think the target audience is 120+ IQ people, not 100 IQ people.

I haven't read the damn book and I never will, but I have a hard time imagining there's any modern science that can't be explained to 100IQ smoothbrains, assuming the author is good enough.

[–] BlueMonday1984@awful.systems 13 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I have a hard time imagining there’s any modern science that can’t be explained to 100IQ smoothbrains, assuming the author is good enough.

Same here. The main things stopping the LWers are that

(a) what they're doing is utterly divorced from modern science

(b) they are godawful writers, to the point where it took years of billionaire funding and an all-consuming economic bubble to break them into the mainstream

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[–] scruiser@awful.systems 13 points 2 weeks ago

It's a microcosm of lesswrong's dysfunction: IQ veneration, elitism, and misunderstanding the problem in the first place. And even overlooking those problems, I think intellect only moderately correlates with an appreciation for science and an ability to understand science. Someone can think certain scientific subjects are really cool but only have a layman's grasp of the technical details. Someone can do decently in introductory college level physics with just a willingness to work hard and being decent at math. And Eliezer could have avoided tangents about nuclear reactors or whatever to focus on stuff relevant to AI.

[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand ~~Rick and Morty~~ If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. (I'm doing a variant of this meme)

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

There's also Eliezer's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his parables-- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Godel Escher Bach, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of his parables, to realize that they're not just entertaining- they say something deep about the nature of Intelligence. As a consequence people who dislike IABIED truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the motivation in Eliezier's existencial catchphrase "Tsuyoku Naritai!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Japanese culture. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Nate Soares genius unfolds itself on their copy of IABIED. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a rationalist tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the math pet's eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 14 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

translator's note: IABIED means "plan"

[–] bitofhope@awful.systems 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] swlabr@awful.systems 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 11 points 1 week ago

Took 3d6 SAN damage.

[–] istewart@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago

I grew up nearby the hometown of one of the Rick and Morty creators, I think the one that got fired for excessive drunkenness and harassment. And when I found that out, my immediate reaction was, "yup, of course a guy from Manteca would make a cartoon about having an alcoholic grandpa"

[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

I hope somebody said: 'If we let Eliezer write this, everybody dies'

I have not read it, but the 8 gpu max thing is funny. I'm halfway there already. Worse perhaps, I'm not sure there still is a Voodoo Graphics card in a box somewhere (don't think those count as a gpu however).

And it is funny that microsoft will now be limited to 8 gpus. But your anarchist polycule commune with 10 people can have 80 of them.

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 8 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Yeah, in some hypothetical bizarro universe where they get their 8 (cutting edge) GPU limit actually passed, I bet the monitoring scheme would be loose in a way that Microsoft just has a box to tick while strict enough that it imposes untenable costs on private individuals.

[–] Soyweiser@awful.systems 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

BREAKING: Police perform 5th anti GPU raid in as many days. Found another illegal weed farm instead. Is the tactic of checking for unusual power usage failing? Our digital AI of John McAfee expresses concern this might hurt bitcoin miners.

[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 8 points 1 week ago

lol they would just get a waiver from Hegseth that they're doing very important national security stuff with it

waiver that says: I can do whatever I want, possibly acquired with help of agent Jack Daniels

[–] ShakingMyHead@awful.systems 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Also, all this would do is change the processing from GPU to CPU. Microsoft commissions AMD, Nvidia or Intel to create a technically-not-a-GPU CPU and just have a computer that uses GDDR instead of the standard DDR.

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[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

see, this also includes ~~aella's bday party location~~ ~~rationalist castle~~ ~~greater sfba area polycule~~ imperial chinese harem where they will solve alignment in no time. all according to the plan

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Hey, it was Caroline Ellison who wanted to be part of the Imperial Chinese Harem! Also, judging by Dragon Army and Leverage Research. the communes aren't anarchist! They are tightly controlled by a single great man type leader.

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[–] swlabr@awful.systems 8 points 1 week ago

Scales remain firmly unfalling from eyes I’d bet.

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