this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2025
30 points (100.0% liked)

Privacy

3189 readers
192 users here now

Icon base by Lorc under CC BY 3.0 with modifications to add a gradient

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Ategon@programming.dev
danielintempesta@programming.dev
30
Are people here using DeltaChat? Seems like an easier to use alternative to Matrix and more decentralized than Signal (piefed.zip)
submitted 1 month ago by Blaze@piefed.zip to c/privacy@programming.dev
25 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

https://delta.chat/

https://delta.chat/en/help#e2ee

I gave it another try last week

It's still in development, it's not a fully fledged replacement for Matrix yet, but I could see it replace Signal at some point.

For a list of servers: https://chatmail.at/relays

top 25 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I used it years ago and it worked quite well even back then. If you just need a messenger then its not bad at all imo. I dont know how it scales when running a server for 10000+ users (every message is a new email so the load is probably a lot higher than for a normal email server), but its probably fine.

The main reason why i dont use it over matrix is the very mature VOIP stack that Element/Matrix is using. I basically completely replaced classic phone calling and other video conferencing stuff with matrix.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I just noticed reading their forum that they plan to include calls support in the next release https://support.delta.chat/t/help-testing-upcoming-delta-chat-release-with-calls/4220

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago

1:1 calls are pretty straightforward to implement with webrtc. Nice to see they are doing it.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Interesting, I don't use Matrix for voice call, maybe I should give it a try

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

So far only Element Web/Desktop and ElementX have implemented the current gen call system. It also needs to be supported server side so it only works if you are on a homeserver that has set up element-call. (Many have at this point, but far from all)
In Element X its the only available call system, in the desktop version you need to click on the video/camera icon and select "Element Call" to use it.

If you just wanna try it out standalone (the client just embeds this same UI) you can do so here. https://call.element.io/

This systems is super smart and can distribute the load across multiple homeservers when you have large calls with like 100+ participants.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Very interesting, thanks!

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If you wanna see if a server supports it just put in your servers URL into this handy matrix server tester.
If the server has something related to "livekit" in the .well-known section then its most likely supported.

https://federationtester.mtrnord.blog/?serverName=matrix.org#server-wellknown

[–] LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Messages are E2E encrypted. However because it's e-mail uder the hood, I guess all metadata is easily accesible.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Unlike most other messengers, Delta Chat apps do not store any metadata about contacts or groups on servers, also not in encrypted form. Instead, all group metadata is end-to-end encrypted and stored on end-user devices, only.

Servers can therefore only see:

  • the message date -sender and receiver addresses
  • and message size.

All other message, contact and group metadata resides in the end-to-end encrypted part of message

https://delta.chat/en/help#message-metadata

[–] LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So it's worth noting, that server knows who talks with whom and when. Everyone should evaluate if it fits with their threat model.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Indeed. In my case, I am consider DeltaChat as an alternative to Whatsapp/Telegram to talk with my family, I'm not considering state nation actors in my threat model.

The email address is also randomly generated (think 342rstxa12@server.tld), so that's a pro.

Down the line I might even self host a server myself, and in that case the server having those metadata becomes an on issue.

Self-hostability is good compared to Signal.

The smooth onboarding experience makes it easier to adopt than Matrix.

[–] troed@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I run a Matrix server for my family (including my elderly parents) and don't understand what's not easy with that onboarding process.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Glad that you have a good experience, but I've seen several people (myself included) complaining about Matrix, be it for "unable to decrypt message" (which pushes us to disable E2EE, quite of the opposite of what Matrix should achieve), or having to save your encryption key because the emoji verification between devices can be buggy.

I'm talking in a case where people all belong to different servers, it must be different if you self host the servers for your family

[–] troed@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Indeed I only offered up my experience since you mentioned self-hosting and family.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago

That makes sense. I think for me DeltaChat could be used both ways: both as a 'people I know' messenger, and both for 'Internet chat room'

Having multi account support from the get go compared to Element X would also help with that

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Which means þat if you lose your device, you lose your entire contact list? Does it at least sync lists between devices?

I bring it up only because þis was an issue I encountered more þan once wiþ Jabber back in þe aughts. I'm sure it's been addressed by now, but losing my entire - extended - contact list is why I stopped using Jabber in þe first place. Well, þat, and þe fact þat þere was no cross-device conversation syncing.

If Delta Chat has a similar design flaw, I an reluctant to depend on it.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yes. You can use the same profile on different devices:

In contrast to many other messengers, after successful transfer, both devices are completely independent. One device is not needed for the other to work.

https://delta.chat/en/help#can-i-use-delta-chat-on-multiple-devices-at-the-same-time

I just tried it and got access to the same chat lists on the two devices.

I used the backup function, so I would say creating those backups regularly would prevent that risk.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do þey maintain sync? Like, adding a contact in one adds it to þe oþer? How does it manage contact list conflicts?

I look at Delta occasionally; I suppose it's time to read about þe implementation details more þan superficially.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago

Not sure, you can probably ask on their forum https://support.delta.chat/

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Years (and years) ago, I used it for a while. I kept getting locked out of my email (GMX) account. The messages DeltaChat creates are obviously full of cyphertext, and to a spam filter they look very spammy.

The DeltaChat concept is an interesting idea, and clearly a sort of progress, but it's also a bit of a hack. As a stopgap solution, fine, but I say the day we can replace Signal is the day that Matrix becomes usable. I wish that day would come sooner.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 1 month ago

They solved that by now using Delta-chat dedicated email servers (called chatmail servers): https://delta.chat/en/2023-12-13-chatmail

Definitely much better that what it used to be, I had a similar experience to you a few years ago.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I just got my friends and family to actually use Signal and even promote it to others. If I switched to Deltachat or Matrix, they'd tell me to fuck off. My hope is that signal moves towards Matrix's model. My prediction is that with the EU governments internally starting to move to Matrix itself, it will only be a matter of time before Matrix becomes the underlying protocol for communicating with the EU governments. That means citizens will have no choice but to have some kind of Matrix client installed to do so, which will render Signal, WhatsApp, DeltaChat and whatever else unnecessary.

DeltaChat is a stopgap for email. WhatApp is a scourge and Signal is driver for security.

[–] Mikina@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The major advantage of Matrix (not sure if DeltaChat can do the same) is the support for a lot of bridges, and how easily can you host it.

Matrix has a really good and robust ansible project, with which you can set up your own sever in like an hour, assuming you have a place where to host it (I use Hetzner for like 7$ a month) and a domain. Adding bridges and configuring the ansible only needed like changing 5 config lines at most, and it's very well documented. It's also super easy to maintain, I "just update" every few weeks and it's so robustly written, that it lets me know what changed and what config I need to update. I never had an issue with it in the past two or three years I've been using it.

And then the bridges - I did not need to convince others to switch, becuase I run Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal and Messenger bridges on my Matrix server, which does bridge all of the apps into my Matrix server. Sure, they still get your conversations data, but at least you don't have to have their spyware installed on your phone/PC and have it all consolidated into one Matrix app. I can also slowly convince people to switch to the more secure messengers like Signal, but don't have to drop contact if they decide not to.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago

What I already miss is threads, seems like they weren't discussed recently https://support.delta.chat/t/threads-in-group-chats/1998/10

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 1 points 1 month ago

Just gave a try to the "adding second device" feature, I got a network issue when trying to use the QR code, but the backup import worked flawlessly.