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243

Italy now recognizes the crime of femicide and punishes it with life in prison (apnews.com)

submitted 6 hours ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

94 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Italy’s parliament on Tuesday approved a law that introduces femicide into the country’s criminal law and punishes it with life in prison.

The vote coincided with the international day for the elimination of violence against women, a day designated by the U.N. General Assembly.

The law won bipartisan support from the center-right majority and the center-left opposition in the final vote in the Lower Chamber, passing with 237 votes in favor.

The law, backed by the conservative government of Premier Giorgia Meloni, comes in response to a series of killings and other violence targeting women in Italy. It includes stronger measures against gender-based crimes including stalking and revenge porn.

(page 2) 46 comments

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[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 15 points 6 hours ago (4 children)

Does this imply that previously killing women wasn't criminal in Italy?

I presume that femicide is a subset of "homicide", but I can't tell if it means "any killing of a woman", "any killing of a woman by a man", "any killing of a woman because she's a woman", or "any killing of a woman by a man because she's a woman".

And I shudder to imagine how trans-women and trans-men fit into this weirdly sexist label.

(In America we have nice gender-neutral crimes, with enhancers if it was done out of prejudicial hate.)

[–] gbzm@piefed.social 24 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It means the murder of a woman motivated by misogyny. It is a subset of homicide and also a subset of hate crimes. It can be thought of as recognizing misogyny as a motive of hate and thus an aggravating circumstance to a homicide, and women as a protected class. Killing a trans woman or a trans man could very well get a "transphobia" label for a double hate crime, depending on the motives that get established. This is not as complicated as you seem to believe.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 9 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

It's not complicated, it's just sexist and not explained in the linked article.

If a man kills a woman out of hatred for women that's a terrible crime and should be severely punished. But if a woman kills a man out of hatred for men, that is exactly as horrific a crime and should be punished no less severely.

Sexism in law benefits nobody.

[–] erin@piefed.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

It isn't sexism in law. Laws are written in blood. If women are frequently being killed because they refused sex or a relationship, then a law should exist as a deterrent. It isn't just "killing a woman because they hate women," it's specifically in cases where women are stalked, harassed, or pursued non-consensually for sex or a relationship. If women were targeting men in the same way, a law should exist in that case as well. That isn't the case, though. Women are VASTLY disproportionately killed by men for reasons pertaining to sex and relationships compared to the other way around.

Italy sees a problem: women are being frequently killed by intimate partners, stalkers, and harassers specifically because of their gender. They made a law to deter that. If the opposite problem presents itself they should do the same.

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[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

The whole point is centered around how sexism runs deep in society. Specifically men dominating the world and placing women below them.

the way you object to this sounds like someone on Reddit talking about men’s rights. To me.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Every time we draw a line and say "women need special protection", we are implicitly saying "men don't matter."

The very simple fix for this is to keep laws gender-neutral, and let the disparity between prosecutions for hateful murders of women vs hateful murders of men be reflective of the actual disparities in the two sexist hatreds.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where a fact like "41% of American women report experiencing domestic partner violence" will be read as an excuse to ignore that 21% of men report the same thing.

https://www.cdc.gov/intimate-partner-violence/about/index.html

I've encountered women arguing that all domestic violence and rape is from men, which would require one-in-five men to have had a homosexual relationship and all such to have been violent.

Yes, men tend to be physically stronger than women and thus male-on-female IPV is often more harmful, but we already have laws that distinguish based on level of harm. And, yes, too many counties are sexist hell-holes that make American red-states look like feminist utopias.

But I don't think we as a species can sexism our way out of sexism.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago

These laws already are gender neutral, just like all anti discrimination laws.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

I just don’t see this as sexism. But I’m not against you sharing your opinion. I’m not trying to argue.

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[–] BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

It sounds like it's killing someone specifically because they are a woman and not for another reason. So, intent is what they're trying to target here.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 5 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Yet we don't find the same applies to men

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world -2 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

It does. Laws like this are always written gender neutral. Same thing with laws banning discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation. It's just as illegal to fire someone for being straight as it is to fire them for being gay.

These laws are always written to protect everyone. But conservatives such as yourself will read a headline and then whine about minority groups receiving "special treatment."

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[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 hours ago

Does this imply that previously killing women wasn't criminal in Italy?

Are you being dense on purpose or what?

In America we have nice gender-neutral crimes

Wow, so progressive

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[–] Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 7 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

At this point just make a "hate crime" and misogyny fall under this but NO!

[–] DishonestBirb@lemmy.world 12 points 6 hours ago (4 children)

This is confusing. So killing a woman is now criminally worse than killing a man? That seems absurd.

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 29 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

"Hate crime" exists in the US with pretty much the same logic.

The law... comes in response to a series of killings and other violence targeting women in Italy.

"Targeting" being the keyword here

[–] falseWhite@lemmy.world -1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (4 children)

How does one determine if the killer killed the woman because he hated her and not just for fun?

I'd guess most murders happen because somebody really hated that person. So that's kinda stupid. But maybe I'm missing something.

Also, I'd think most murders are targeted, otherwise it's just manslaughter, no?

[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 17 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Italian here: the crime arises when the homicide is committed because the woman refused to start or pursue a relationship with the perpetrator.

[–] falseWhite@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Just a poorly written article, omitting many key points about this and it's causing confusion for those that haven't been following this saga, which I guess is most non-Italians

[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 10 points 5 hours ago

Totally agree, not very clear

[–] pageflight@lemmy.world 17 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

There's a lot of distinction around intent in US law: premeditated, 1st degree, manslaughter (as you brought up) v homicide.

And laws are often written in blood: if something is happening enough people want to curtail it, make more law/punishment. So this just recognizes that femicide has been a particular problem.

Is a woman losing her life worse than a man? Not inherently. Does Italy need a more severe deterrent for targeting women lethally than other cases? Sounds like.

[–] falseWhite@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I'm familiar with mitigating and aggravating circumstances.

Is that what this is? The article is not very clear on this and it sounds like regardless of the circumstances, any murder of a woman will be treated as a femicide.

Edit: okay I found another article that does mention aggravating circumstances, like stalking and sexual violence. Which makes a lot more sense.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 hours ago

Usually because of statements made by the perpetrator, either before or after the attack, that show they targeted this person for that reason.

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[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world -1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

No. You are just susceptible to right wing issue framing.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, this seems very odd...

[–] Nomad -4 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Confusing? Its impossible to know. How would you determine the gender of a dead person without assuming their gender?! That's the only thing worse than murder and we shouldn'tallows that no matter how much more the man has to suffer in three eyes of the law. At least we don't just assume his gender.

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world -1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

So murdering a woman is now instantly life in prison or life in prison wasn’t on the punishment list for this before?

[–] gbzm@piefed.social 15 points 6 hours ago

Feminicide means murder motivated by hate for women, also known as misogyny. If you kill your gran to get the inheritance and don't have a family chat calling her a dumb broad that doesn't deserve to be richer than the males of your line you're only liable for regular murder

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