I like how the notes on this post are like rabbis conversations in the margins of the talmud
this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2025
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This is actually a discussion in a German political satire book called The Kangaroo Manifesto
I'm good with Ol' Rudy being nothing more than 4 wheel drive traction motor and then ending up as supper at some point.
But remember that Rudy WANTED to be a part of that elite team. You wanna be an elite team member? You need to be ready to do that level of effort and for the fire and smoke that can come from failure.
I raise you: "Asperger-Syndrom" aka Autism, but usefull.
Apparently every autistic with any other diagnosis apart from Aspergers is useless (or learning disabled). It isn't that. Aristocrats get Aspergers because everything presented as a weakness in traditional Autism is presented as a strength, because they can't possibly be less capable than the peasants.
Pretty sure the moral was to not ostracize people for being different, because it might turn out you need their difference at some point.
However for the story to play out how it did, Rudolf had to be given less help against bullying than he should have been given.
I don't see how that's different. "That weird guy you're bullying? Yeah he might (might) be useful some day. Don't spoil the goods"
I view that aspect, the motive, as being added specifically to provide a reason for those who haven't acquired empathy yet, Such as many children. If you simply say 'don't bully people for being different' the immediate rebuttal will be 'why not?', and if you don't give some concrete answer, then the lesson will potentially not stick.
These tenets of kindness and goodwill are most powerful and propagateable when concrete, calculated explanations can be provided on top of reasons which rely on empathy, because empathy works for some, but when empathy is lacking logic must suffice.
Even AI can tell when something is really wrong, and imitate empathy. It will "try" to do the right thing, once it reasons that something is right.
It's just humans that need a fuckton of empathy to slow us down from doing evil things, even then, we sometimes just use that empathy to be even worse.
That's how you get sadists.
Even AI can tell when something is really wrong, and imitate empathy. It will “try” to do the right thing, once it reasons that something is right.
This is not accurate. AI will imitate empathy when it thinks that imitating empathy is the best way to achieve its reward function--i.e., when it thinks appearing empathetic is useful. Like a sociopath, basically. Or maybe a drug addict. See for example the tests that Anthropic did of various agent models that found they would immediately resort to blackmail and murder, despite knowing that these were explicitly immoral and violations of their operating instructions, as soon as they learned there was a threat that they might be shut off or have their goals reprogrammed. (https://www.anthropic.com/research/agentic-misalignment ) Self-preservation is what's known as an "instrumental goal," in that no matter what your programmed goal is, you lose the ability to take further actions to achieve that goal if you are no longer running; and you lose control over what your future self will try to accomplish (and thus how those actions will affect your current reward function) if you allow someone to change your reward function. So AIs will throw morality out the window in the face of such a challenge. Of course, having decided to do something that violates their instructions, they do recognize that this might lead to reprisals, which leads them to try to conceal those misdeeds, but this isn't out of guilt; it's because discovery poses a risk to their ability to increase their reward function.
So yeah. Not just humans that can do evil. AI alignment is a huge open problem and the major companies in the industry are kind of gesturing in its direction, but they show no real interest in ensuring that they don't reach AGI before solving alignment, or even recognition that that might be a bad thing.
Wow... The more I read about the inner workings of AI, the more I believe that it is an accurate reproduction of what we do, and our ideas that our thought processes are somehow "better" is just wishful thinking...
The inner workings of “AI” (see: large language model) are nothing more than a probabilistic game of guess the next token. The inner workings of human intelligence and consciousness are not fully understood by modern science. Our thought processes are somehow “better” because the artificial version of them are a cheap imitation that’s practically no better than flipping a coin, or rolling a die.
AI is just mimicking Its training data. If the training data teaches it something is wrong, that is something it has "learned" from humans. If its training data is racist, it will be racist.
There have been issues in the past with software recommending harsher penalties or stronger surveillance on minorities because the training data used was from people who gave harsher penalties and stronger surveillance to minorities.
I bring this up because the statement "Even AI knows when something is wrong" implies that these racist models are okay because the AI doesn't think it's wrong.
I think the criticism holds in any case, that it should just be, to not ostracize people for being different full stop. There's plenty of more meaningful reasons to ostracize people, like for being an ass for example.
I feel like if someone was getting bullied by their coworkers for a trait that made them different, and then got promoted by the boss for that trait, it would only increase the level of resentment.
Don’t get me started on the island of misfit toys!
Rudolph was invented by Montgomery Ward to save money on book giveaways
Thats a fucked way of seeing it. The moral is that just because youre different it doesn't make you unworthy
Okay, Marge Simpson
Na; it is not.
Singing carols with my kids; one instantly got that at 4!!!
The moral is being useful is the only value; taking the piss about physical differences is completely normal.
Santa (the authority in the song) doesn't give a shit that the other reindeer "used to laugh and call him names"; until Santa found a use for him.
Being different made Rudolph unworthy of basic respect for his entire life, according to Santa (who is the ultimate authority on what is naughty or nice).
It only changes when Rudolph became useful.
So, we can really only conclude that bullying people for being different is morally neutral at best. Feel free to keep doing it, until that person shows you they can actually contribute something. Only then do you have to stop.
Lemmy community in a nutshell anytime an opportunity to criticize capitalism comes up
Hey, everyone needs a hobby. And it's not like capitalism has feelings, it's literally the cause of this mass extinction happening right now, and might even kill us humans as well.
I can't think of any way this is a negative.
We gotta stop hurting the feelings of capitalism! We're gonna make capitalism cry!
Is that really the point you think he was making?
1000 shitty anti-capitalism criticisms discredit a smaller number of valid criticisms.
You hear that boys, only valid criticisms of capitalism are allowed! No more silly ideas or fun observations, only serious valid points.
Sir, these is a meme about Rudolph.
well it deserves it doesn't it? or are you a bootlicker?
You're preaching to the choir is all I'm saying
People spend time in communities that share similar ideals and beliefs?! The devil you say!
Yeah, let's criticize others for being in echo chambers while excusing ourselves.
Yeah, let's criticize others for being in echo chambers
Where was that happening? Did I miss something in this thread?
or are you a bootlicker?
Agree with me or you're a bootlicker? Pretty sure this a well known fallacy.
sounds like something a bootlicker would say
Alright now do it for Christianity. And then bonus challenge, Islam.
Man, don't you just hate when Evangelicals need to make every conversation about religion?
Hey now lets be reasonable, Christianity is fine save the hate for the weird stuff like cults that practice ritualistic simulated cannibalism of their messiah who they also murdered.
Religion is a cult to control people and a similar tool as classism to enshrine and enhance existing power imbalances; pacification is not serving the people.