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What Venezuelans do with Venezuela is their own business.
For many Venezuelans seeing Maduro go is a good thing. At the same time kidnapping a foreign leader is just wrong and will have long term negative repercussions. Both being true doesn't invalidate each other.
It’s amazing how many people cannot grasp that you can dislike Maduro but not support illegal US Warhawk imperialism.
In other words
If a mob boss murders a drug dealer in order to help expand their "territory": they're still both evil criminals and the mob boss should still be charged
One I would have no problem with would be putin. trump can illegally prance putin in girl clothes for a month if he wants. But maybe we know more about Ukraine than Venezuela. Although we can see Venezuela and how most of their houses are not blown up to pieces.
So putin? Anybody?
Somebody needs to remind Trump and his donors of Russian oil
Russia has tons of oil!
So its like American Cubans?
Exactly like American Cubans
And most groups really. The dynamics are often the same. We see the folks who were wealthy and discontent enough to leave. It can’t be overstated how expensive it can be to move to the US from some places. People have to save for years just for the airfare.
People who expatriate from their home country typically dont have nice things to say about it. Its scary to me that so many people uncritically accept their opinions as fact.
Uncritically accepting anything is always a problem. In this case, American Venezuelans are not representative of their entire home country, as OP says. But on the other hand they likely know more about Venezuela than the average American, so I wouldn’t reject what they have to say categorically either.
Its been years since I left my country (not Venezuela) and I love it.
Still, I like to joke that people that leave a country (like myself) are weird or phrased slightly differently they're statistically not representative. I've noticed that I have a habit of meeting a small number of people from a country and overgeneralising and that's particularly error prone when they're traveler's I've met somewhere or expats
This can also be said of the Cuban diaspora. So many people that I know (including those in my family) will shit talk "communism" and praise Trump as if he was their own personal savior. They don't even have a rudimentary understanding of Marxism let alone leftist political thought as a whole. Yes, Soviet-style Marxism-Leninism led to authoritarianism and the Castro regime wasn't great. But do you really someone like Flugencio or (for a modern reference) Bukele serving US capitalist interests?
It doesn't matter what style of Marxist ideology is attempted, they will all lead down to the same path of authoritarianism, mismanagement, and corruption. The ideologies and underlying framework are fundamentally flawed.
That being said, I don't appreciate the false dichotomy. There's clearly more, and way better options than a corrupt tyrannical leftist state or a corrupt tyrannical right wing state put in by the US. There's no reason anyone should support either because they're lesser of evils when there are paths to pick something that's not evil at all.
I feel like I'm a rare breed of anti-communist that also isn't anti-leftist.
I was born in PRC, I hate the CCP for both it's politics and on a personal level (2nd child born under One Child Policy, which they tried to "terminate" me)
That said, I, as an immigrant to the US, I also despise the far-right. I never supported the republican party I always supported Democrats, despite me being pro-gun (cuz I'm not a single-issue voter), and more specifically, I support progressivism, like I liked Bernie the moment I heard about the Medicare 4 All and that sort of stuff (but wasn't old enough to vote at the time). Like why the fuck would I support an ideology that wants to deport me? Lmfao. I know my history, I know of the Chinese Exclusion Act. Don't want that shit to happen again.
I like Mamdani (I'm not a New Yorker anymore, used to live in NYC), cuz I know he ain't a communist (as in the authoritarian stuff). A Democratic Socialist is not a communist.
I have nuance, normie don't understand shit and instantly defaults to campism.
I realized this when I first visited Mexico, what you see here is not necessarily representative of that nation. The people who come here are the hungry ones looking to make money or just get out of Mexico. When I went to Mexico City I suddenly saw lots of BMWs, Mercedes, nice homes (and a lot of rough areas), etc. The people who come here come here because they are poor and ambitious/desperate, the well to do ones stay there.
A similar thing with Indian immigrants but we get the ones with higher education, the money to leave and live here, fluent in English, curious and ambitious, etc. The poor and uneducated aren't coming over.
Average American here ... Please can we get some of that Foreign Intervention you speak of?
Pretty please?
it’s also likely they know the formula: “show support not protest because protest will get you ICE’d.”
I asked my father for his thoughts on the situation, and he talked about how the Venezuelans could go back home to visit their families and that they were very excited. I sent him the Lemmy post from the Venezuelan that we all probably saw, and explained that there is a lot that is still unclear and how the US's actions are very similar to the ones he's seen throughout his life, especially post 9/11.
You make a great point, I do think we can see communities as a monoculture sometimes, or that they are at least portrayed like that in the media (undocumented=illegal criminal/gang member) which is just blatantly false.
Also a bit of hypocrisy decrying Maduro's illegitimate government and then cheering on your own.
Dear Europe,
It seems it's now ok to depose a criminal leader by force. Just sayin. Hint.
-Americans
It happens with almost any latin american community in the USA. It happens with almost latin american community on internet.
For example, r/Colombia or r/Bogota are huge echo chambers of daddys's boys, neoliberals and even cardboard-colored neonazis who don't have a grasp about the complexities of the country and seem to live in a bubble. i.e. they make fun of people who don't have Netflix... on a Country where less than 50% of people have internet access, not everyone has a TV and there are places where you only can tune a couple of AM radio stations.
Pretty sure something similar happens with almost every latin american country community on the internet or in a so-called "first world" country.
That being said, some Venezuelans deny criminal organizations like "Tren de Aragua" are real or that venezuelans are running them, be Maduro supporters or not. But they're real and are extorting and killing people in other countries in Latin America. This is not to say every venezuelan is a criminal, but not every venezuelan is a saint.
Our countries' reality is way, way more complex than people in the USA realize.
Maduro and Trump are friends
Maduro gets to escape his country and save face instead of being assassinated or executed.
Trump gets to manufacture a conflict so he can start martial law and become a dictator, and to distract from us learning he came inside little girls.
The only thing this is about is Trump getting PERSONAL control of the oil, so he can be as wealthy as his friends the Saudis.
Oh yes, the 7.9 million wealthy millionaires that...walked through a deadly jungle... to get to the US.
Please, Lemmy, stop trying to talk about Venezuelans as if you know shit. You don't know jack.
Also, this post is extremely xenophobic, racist and classicist, the fact that mods let it stand is a shame.
Never said they were all millionaires, only that they tend to be wealthier. In general immigrants from developing countries are on the higher end of income from the country they emigrate from.
Also 7.9 million Venezuelans did not cross the Darien gap, most Venezuelan migrants stayed in South America in neighboring countries like Colombia, Brazil and Ecuador. Those that could afford it did make their way to the US but not all of them crossed the Darien gap and could've taken alternate safer and more expensive routes, if not legal routes including hopping on a plane.
I fail to see how it's any of those things you just mentioned, I didn't say don't listen to Venezuelans or even don't listen to the Venezuelans in the US, I'm pointing out the biases that that group possess and telling people not to overgeneralize and think "all the Venezuelans here are cheering, so every Venezuelan must love this" . Saying that emigre Venezuelans are representative of Venezuelans as a whole would be racist, classist, xenophobic etc.
I do wonder, what % of anti-trump people would be okay witha foreign power using a military raid to arrest him while killing secret service personnel to do it. It's a nonzero number for sure... but how high. Somone should totally do a poll.
Unlike Maduro, trump won his election. ;)
YSK Maduro was fully impeached by the Venezuelan version of Congress and he used his military power to just stay in office and further silence dissent. Your post is either ill informed at best or at worst propaganda. The US does a lot of terrible things and this likely not the way or time to do this. 20-25% of Venezuelans have left and those were the ones with the will or luck to do so. Imagine how many others want to leave. Of the 75-80% of the population maybe support has grown just using math of the opposers leaving. Those people probably want to go back to their country if it were in a state to return to.
That's not what the ACTUAL Venezuelans are saying though
Point to me which statement I made was ill informed or propagandistic. I never said Maduro has majority support, I said the opposite in fact, or that everyone over there loves Maduro. Just that they don't to a person hate him like the Venezuelans do over here and warning people not to take their opinions as representative of Venezuelans as a whole.
Many news outlets are showing cheering crowds in south Florida as a sign Venezuelans are happy for this. Like I said in the original post, yes they do represent a large chunk of Venezuelans who hate Maduro and left. The opinions of Venezuelans who like Maduro and stayed are noticeably absent though and they represent another large chunk of the population.
I never said to outright dismiss there opinions, just to know that it's biased and to be aware that there are differing opinions, how is that propaganda?
This is true for almost every expat/immigrant community I've interacted with, including my own. It's pretty obvious in voting pattern differences between the expat community and the native country. The far right gets 30-40% among Bulgarians in Canada compared to 10-20% back home. The left gets 1-2% here compared to 7-10% back home.