"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in unrelated arguments.
Brigading — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from voting, commenting or manipulating the post in any way, this includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be permanently banned.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
db0 is a joke. They’re like a bunch of wannabe anarchists pretending to buck the system- all while perfectly mimicking its behavior.
Those clowns banned me for calling out Universal Monk and all of his sad little sock puppets, and it was probably the best thing to happen to me on lemmy because as a result, I blocked the entire instance and lemmy suddenly became far less annoying.
They're the weakest anarchists I've ever seen. They can't even decide if they should like China or not. Anarchists struggling to hate authoritarian states -- Wild.
Really by now they're tankies, wholly and fully. But that's anarchists for you, for whatever reason, they keep thinking authoritarians will cater them come the revolution™
Only to be killed off again. You'd think that after the third or so betrayal they'll understand.
They’re identical to Internet “atheist” if only in that they’re equally as obnoxious.
Looool I argued with db0 before the election when he was posting endless memes mocking people for voting against Trump.
Tankie bartender is suddenly shocked that the tankies he cozied up with feel cozy.
Whoa really? He mocked people voting against trump?
would love to see some of those
If you go to his posts from around that time you can see more, but that's the most mask-off example.
lol you should post that
We keep attracting Tankies, and anarchists are actively avoiding us and calling us out...
At least they're honest they're not, and I deliciously quote, "actual anarchists" -- Took a bit, but yes, you guys are not actually anarchists, well done on the relevation.
I told you this ages ago lol, and your response was, and I deliciously quote, 'eat with tankies at a campfire'
Calling this community a Nazi bar is incredible. I've not seen a single comment here defensive of any form of Nazism, be it historical or rebranded (e.g. the alt-right or MAGA). My impression is that the users' views here range from anarchist to liberal.
It's projection. Dbzer0 is a tankie bar, so therefore mog must be a nazi bar.
It's an analogy. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_bar
In this case, it is saying that the tankies are so obnoxious that once you let them in the door and make it clear they'll be protected there (even indirectly by banning and being hostile to "turbolibs" who are arguing with them), they will completely ruin your space by driving everyone else away. It's nothing to do with literal Nazis.
Honestly props to db0 for recognizing the problem, I think. And yes, multiple people told him this would happen and he ignored them or made fun of them. Oh well lol, hopefully this will be a learning experience and we'll all come to a better place as a result.
In the screenshot, an infamous tankie from ML is calling MeanwhileOnGrad a Nazi bar.
Oh... it honestly didn't even occur to me that anyone might be using "Nazi bar" in any sense other than talking about dbzer0 here, simply because that is precisely what is happening to them which it sounds like db0 is realizing.
My bad. Cowbee is out of his damn mind although I guess that's not new. I honestly don't even know what he's trying to get at there, I guess it could be some kind of Karl Rove tactic where they simply pick things they've been accused of and repeat the accusation back at the accusers without it really needing to make any sense. But regardless, it's still relevant that "Nazi Bar" has nothing to do with literal Nazis. They don't need to be accusing MOG of being Nazis for the analogy to hold (although like I say I have absolutely no idea what the logic would be under which it would).
I honestly don't even know what he's trying to get at there, I guess it could be some kind of Karl Rove tactic where they simply pick things they've been accused of and repeat the accusation back at the accusers without it really needing to make any sense.
I like to think of this behaviour as a cargo cult. Just repeating stuff without any understanding of the underlying meaning. The idiots on /r/T_D used to do that and it's very common with tankies too.
You are a Zionist front. The community contributors and moderator parrot debunked Israeli propaganda, and conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism.
The particular term might not be my own way of describing the community, but it is generally an accurate observation that you dwell in a rabbit hole of reactionary misinformation.
You keep saying debunked, debunked, debunked... But you've actually yet to do so.
Because you know it's gonna be something like "you said Hamas raped people on Oct 7 -- the first rape actually occured at 12:01 on Oct 8, you ZIONIST SHILL"
SHE DESERVED IT, SHE'S A COLONISER
No, you're a Zionist front. And you're transphobic.
Chopping it up with the guys that don't fail to shoot them in their backs during the revolution? You can't make this stuff up😂
Lmao leftymemes? I got banned for criticizing Venezuela—reason being "trolling". Those guys are a tankie bar at this point.
They absolutely are a tankie bar, they're even aware of it
The mod log shows no actions against you by Lefty Memes.
It happened on my .world account
The reason you were banned was trolling.
Not admitting any responsibility for being disruptive and insincere is simply dishonest.
In fact, you seem to have a history of commenting in socialist communities with content that is provocative but also absurd.
Further, a memes community is generally not suited to starting debates.
Finally, no socialist group will roll out the red carpet for someone who propagates transphobia.
you seem to have a history of commenting in socialist communities with content that is provocative but also absurd.
You mean tankie communities. I'm a Marxist myself with Leninist tendencies. All I'm doing is calling out bullshit Marxism.
Further, a memes community is generally not suited to starting debates.
This is your only criticism i can accept, although you'd have to level that same critique to those engaging with me in the thread as well. Furthermore, a simple slap on the wrist rather than an outright ban would've sufficed IMO.
Finally, no socialist group will roll out the red carpet for someone who propagates transphobia.
Me? Transphobic? You seem to have the wrong guy pal
Me? Transphobic? You seem to have the wrong guy pal
It's part of their MO. Anyone who disagrees with them in any way is (a) Zionist and (b) transphobic.
It is part of why they stake out these absolutely wild positions (we need to not call out Dragonrider for trolling / Hamas didn't rape anybody on October 7th), to bait people into disagreeing with them from the "wrong side," and then they can get all scream-y about the accusation and have something real to point to that actually sort of vaguely looks like they have a point. Then, they take that little grain of sand and spin it up into a world-spanning pearl where the whole of MOG is Zionist and transphobic. It actually works pretty well.
Like it's such a weird comment. Here's me literally asserting that the male/female paradigm is a spectrum in response to an actual transphobe. These debate tactics are always so lazy. They have nothing to get you on, so they resort to ad hominems they know they're gonna receive mass support on regardless of your actual points.
So fucking stupid
Like it’s such a weird comment.
Taken factually, yes. It's not meant factually. It's meant tribally, to tag someone as "enemy" by assigning something irredeemable to them and marking them as a hated enemy in the eyes of the group. That's why the tags are always the same, and have nothing to do with anything the person actually said or did.
Couldn't have said it better. There has to be a name for this phenomenon.
You wrote "Do trans women get self concious [sic] about their penis size?" The question is certainly one most likely to be presented by someone feeling aversion to trans people, and in either case, it readily energizes such sentiments.
Your comments in ML's memes community was correctly appraised as appearing to take sides opposing generally all leftism, and favoring US imperialism. They were indistinguishable from US propaganda, framing the issue lazily and simplistically, as lacking any appropriate criticism for imperialism and propaganda. You also called someone a fascist, without having any sensible justification. and invoked a clown emoji as an attack, again without sensible justification.
Your exchange on Lefty Memes appears not possible to be reconstructed from the mod log, but the reason appears to be unrelated to criticizing Venezuela.
The question is certainly one most likely to be presented by someone feeling aversion to trans people
So you made a false assumption to avoid having to do any substantive criticism? Great!
Also, I don't bother arguing in good faith on the tankie triad, because I'd get banned anyways. Might as well shit on them. If you want to see my good faith arguments, there are plenty on my profile.
unrelated to criticizing Venezuela.
Yes, as i said, the reason given was trolling. Which makes absolutely no sense.
There are multiple experiments which show pretty clearly that humans are wired to organize into "tribes" and then will go to war with a pretty shocking level of vigor against the enemy "tribe."
https://www.simplypsychology.org/robbers-cave.html
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/lesson-of-a-lifetime-72754306/
I think maybe it should be kind of a "separation of church and state" thing that the instance administration and defined "correct culture" for any Lemmy instance should be separated from any kind of tribal identity. I think it is abundantly clear at this point that all the instances that are organized around a particular tribal identity inevitably become senselessly dark and combative with other instances, who they perceive as "enemies" because they are allegedly not with the received wisdom and correctness of the tribe.
Fairly interesting and no doubt i've done a bit of that by banning the dbzer0 admin from earlier.
But why should we give Tankies liberal fairness when they despise liberalism?
But why should we give Tankies liberal fairness when they despise liberalism?
Because it's an important way that people who are confused by that tribalism can get un-confused. There is a strong impulse to "fight back" against the "enemies" or dunk on them, which I'm guilty of plenty of times, but also, I do think that being normal and reasonable with people helps to defuse that "all your enemies are Zionist neoliberal CIA NATO Hakeem Jeffries supporters" propaganda.
A big part of the .ml echo chamber is really emphasizing to each other what their opponents believe, so they won't have a chance to hear what the actual "enemy" point of view is and they won't believe it when they hear it. I think that is such an important part of the propaganda specifically because if they get to hear what the actual viewpoint is, it makes a lot more sense and undoes that "they are horrible and enemies on purpose because they hate you" worldview.
A lot of the "deprogramming" that you hear about from tribal identity comes from direct personal interaction with the enemies, and realizing that they are just people with sort of reasonable ways of looking at things. That's not what they were raised to believe about the enemies, it can be powerful to undo it.
I disagree, I find it doesn't matter what our point of view or actual opinions are, because they just make it up and circlejerk around that. You also can't change their opinion on anything, they will never budge since extremists didn't reason into their position, their position is entirely based on their emotions. So long as they have their safe spaces, they'll never actually engage, consider other points of view, or even realise they may be wrong.
It also doesn't matter what you say or do, they've already made up their minds about you, and nothing will change that.
It's not just about the person you're talking to, though. For every comment, about 99% of the people reading it will be different from the person who you're "officially" talking to.
Yeah, true. Outside this community I try to be more analytical and approachable, too bad I'm banned from most comms lol
Sounds like a nazi bar, but on the other side of the street
not this street
