NFL

Eric Mangini could’ve won those Super Bowls with Brady. Belichek is a fraud.

first time on reddit?

So I’d like to add in two of the SBs they lost to the giants they allowed 17 and 21 points. If you look through history the winning team typically scores a lot more than that

He's a cheater. Plain and simple

BB is the best defensive mind in football. Ever. As much as I hate to say it, he's the best coach of all time. But BB as GM may have run his course. The formula for early Patriots success of a killer D with an average offense falls apart when the entire secondary dies and the offense wishes for an average day.

The problem isn't scheming on defense this year, it's a piss-poor offense that makes the Steelers look good. Mac Jones has not developed into a good QB. His mechanics and decision making are just flat out bad. Mitch Trubisky would be an upgrade over Mac Jones, and Mitch is not good.

Bill is having a bad season, but that doesn't mean that every coach across from him isn't bringing their A-Game each and every game.

The Bill Belichick slander and revisionism has ~~went~~ gone way too far overall

he had ONE good season in 4 since Tb12 left, what are you talking about

Bill has always been a slightly above average head coach who lucked into a few more super bowls than he deserved. He isn't an awful coach or anything, but he's also nowhere near one of the best.

This is a fair and correct assessment.

I think a lot of the negative stories about his proteges like McDaniels are coming out now and (maybe rightfully?) contribute to tarnishing his image

Agree with everything, but you are suggesting him to be a DC ? This is arguably the best ever Head Coach

feels like you read my comment in the other thread and the replies and said "enough is enough" lmao. love this post.

We also need to take into account he is defense and special teams coach and both have been stifled by rule changes over his career to the point offense plays a bigger role in today's game.

Agreed, it’s foolish.

His legacy goes beyond New England too. Coached the Browns to their most recent playoff win before Baker’s, has a Super Bowl gameplan in the Hall of Fame, and Bill Parcells (a HoF coach) never won a playoff game without BB on the staff.

His personnel decisions have put the current Patriots in a rough spot, but people forget how dominant the Pats’ defenses were in the first part of the dynasty. They faced a bunch of MVP caliber QBs and BB’s scheme gave them absolute fits. Not to mention he held MVP Mahomes scoreless for a half and completely locked down the 2018 Rams in his last SB run.

If you want to give Brady the greater share of credit for the dynasty, that’s fine—Belichick himself has said it’s a player’s game. But acting like any other coach could’ve led the Pats to their dynasty and thinking BB just had his thumb up his ass in the film room for 20 years is completely disingenuous and disrespectful to his legacy and impact on the league.

Welcome to the "What have you done for me lately" attitude that is the talking point in all sports now.

To butcher a quote from Layer Cake:

He wouldn't be so fucking good if he didn't have Tom Brady!

Well he fucking did, didn't he?

Brady made him.

So we're all just going to continue ignoring that Belichick and Brady are both cheaters? Okay...

He’s one of the worst GM over the last 5yrs and hasn’t had a solid draft in over 10yrs. I think he’s the GOAT coach but I also think Mayocks drafts as bad as they were are on par if not slightly better than Bills. Mayock was probably the worst GM of the last 5yrs so that should tell you something.

Bill is one of the greatest football minds I've ever witnessed. Does he win as much without Brady? No. But Brady doesn't win ANYTHING wihtout Bill.

Bill is the man. And any ungrateful Pats fan can fuck right off.

I secretly hope the Pats do move on and Bellichek comes to Dallas and wins a SB or 2 so we can debate forever who needed whom. Brady or Bellichek.

His defenses are elite, no question, Brady with his long drives helped keep the defense on the bench too, Mac with his 3 and out trash are making it way harder on pats defense

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Honestly though, I hate the reddit hivemind. Over reactionary on nearly every single topic. I'm a huge colts fan and I'd love to have a community to celebrate them but basically if you're not a superbowl winning team it's doom and gloom. Constant memes about how much it sucks to be a colts fan, blah blah blah.

As a Michigan State football fan the only frame I reference I have for this is Mark Dantonio. Certainly the best football coach in my life who rose the program to heights it hadn't seen since the 60s, but nevertheless it was his time to go when it was his time to go. I don't think one bad season defines him, but certainly with him putting Patricia as the offensive coordinator last year, it has me really wondering if he thinks he's above reproach and surrounded by yes men.

I think a more fair bit of criticism for Belichick is that he hasn’t performed up to standard in his role as GM specifically. Many people believe he’s still a great defensive mind but has simply missed on too many draft picks over the last handful of years.

The Patriots had good to great defenses in 2008, 2020, 2021 & 2022 and didn’t win anything. 0-1 in the playoffs.

Belichick is a fraud

No one and I mean no one is above not having a franchise QB.

I really hope Kraft is dumb enough to fire Belichick mid season. That will motivate him enough to go to another team and decimate

Revisionist history goes hand in hand with recency bias. Bill is not having much success right now, so he was actually carried by Brady, despite all of the evidence that says otherwise. Russell Wilson looks like a shell of himself, so he was always a problem and really not that good in Seattle, even though he played like a top 5 quarterback for several years. I remember when Manning was washed and playing very poorly in his final seasons, there were people questioning how good he actually was prior, citing his poor playoff performances in the past. The haters always find a way to come out of the woodwork, especially when its most convenient.

A silver lining I've noticed, however, is as more time passes, the recency bias starts to wear off a bit and people start to look at things more clearly. Now Manning is revered highly, as he should be. Romo as another example was a punching bag during much of his time in Dallas, but is now looked at a lot more positively. When all is said and done and more time passes, Bill will be just as highly respected as he deserves to be

Honestly it’s just fun to beat up on him

I think he's obviously worse without Brady. But Brady was the best of all time. And BB won SO much with him. Compare them to the other best QBs of all time and it's pretty obvious that BB is a fantastic coach. Look at Dan Marino or Payton Manning. They were just as talented as Brady and they were much less successful.

I think what is happening is BB is in the twilight of his career. It happens to all the best coaches. And for whatever reason people are using it to disparage his whole career.

Personally I think he should have retired when Brady left and just let the question hang and the Pats move on to a new era fully.

Of the 6 Super Bowls that Brady/Belichick won it's very clear that Belichick should get more credit for 3 of them and Brady for 1 of them. The other 2 are mostly toss ups.

Agreed. How many times did us Pat's fans have to defend Brady as not a system QB who was carried by the defense? How many times did we have to have the debate that Peyton wouldn't have 10 rings if he had Bill as a coach.

Are we gonna act like the Defense wasn't the main reason we won multiple games, including both Rams SBs?