It's actually quite reassuring to see how many people are in favour of removing the endorsement. However, I'm deeply disappointed in the core maintainer's initial reaction and ongoing doubling-down.
This is enough to make me drop neovim: if a maintainer behaves this way then I have no confidence that they will act in the best interests of marginalised community members.
Emacs has always been right there, waiting π
I spend way too much time yak-shaving with emacs :D Besides, I'm most comfortable and productive with the vim way of doing motions/verbs, and when I tried evil-mode it was just subtly different enough to keep tripping me up.
I appreciate emacs, but it's not my preference.
The original Github issue was deleted, but there is a new issue up in case anyone wants to vote on it
Looks like they merged the removal PR. I didn't bother to read through the issue to see what convinced them.
Justinmk, the lead maintainer wrote:
You all have embarrassed and shamed yourselves.
Most of you aren't Neovim users, but a drive-by mob, swirling from one mindless vomit-party to another, like the pacific garbage patch.
I guess we now know what the n in nvim stands for.
Neofascist. This is why fascist and vim are better. A fascist is easier to shoot than neofascist, usually due to their salute exposing their heart.
I use vim btw.
Well, shit! Looks like it's time to try EVi, then.
I really enjoy Helix. I don't think it's explicitly anti-AI tho
The quote has been removed https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/pull/504/files
He was sooo salty about it though - https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/issues/501#issuecomment-5455572223
Was there any advantage to neovim other that nice color defaults and Lua capability inclusion?
Maybe I'll go back to Vim. I screwed up and chose all the fascist materials for my last build. Hyprland, now Neovim. Is there a site to show compositors, front ends, and Linux packages with Nazi tags before we start using them?
Treesitter is a fantastic feature to have. Easy, reliable access to ASTs opens up lots of possibilities. Neovim didn't invent Treesitter, and it's not the only editor that uses it. But I think it does have the most Treesitter-based functionality in its ecosystem.
Wait is hyrpland made by a bigot too?
It's getting exclusive sponsorship from DHH
Calling it "nazi" just because the maintainer doesn't remove an endorsement that let's be real most people probably miss anyways... cmon zoom out a bit. Not saying it's a good look but it's really watering the word down.
If it was me I would have removed the endorsement. Who cares if it segregates the communuty? I'd feel better if billionaire puppets were excluded and not filling FOSS with blobs and surveillance crap, or whatever other hardships they present to our species this week.
I think he just doesn't like being bossed around with demands on issues he doesn't feel are "important". So he refused to do it out of principle. Of course then people like vultures started attacking him so he doubled down, can't blame him.
But it seems like he changed his mind and removed it after all. The change got merged.
I thought we were talking about an endorsement. What change got merged? Sorry I just didn't follow that part.
I guess the big question is: Should Hyprland users expect enshittification and should we start finding another compositor?
the endorsement was on their website
the change that got merged was the one that replaced that endorsement with another one
Ahhhhh. I am really satisfied with Hyprland and don't want to switch. I'll just keep it for now.
Nobody attacked him. He doubled down first and then cried victim when people pointed out how suspicious his doubling-down looked.
No one attacked him. People simply pointed it out and he was immediately obstinate and defensive.
It's shitty behavior, through and through.
If there's a table with 9 Nazis, and you choose to go and sit and eat with them, then there's a table with 10 Nazis.
I tend to agree, I also don't think its a useful term when thrown against many people because they might hold this kind of specific view but be progressive in many other ways, it means they can dismiss the term because they understand themselves to not be it, like when the right wing try to label leftists and progressives as "fascist", its just not accurate.
So what I prefer is to point out something that is harder to deny, I like to point out how happy they are to hold a view or position that is held by or promoted by fascists/nazis etc. Saying to somebody that they "side/agree with the fascists" on a view or policy seems to elicit a much more emotional reaction as its not something they can easily deny and they have to confront.
Holy shit. I use vim and have always been entirely disinterested in neovim, and this really makes it clear that was the right decision.
Fuck Justin. I actually use one of his plugins in vim (vim-dirvish), but this just leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. Guess I'll either fork it or remove it.
Man, this was literally as simple as "Oh, wow, wasn't aware this guy was a turd" and put a PR up to remove or change the quote. Resisting this at all makes it look so much worse. I do think that the DHH controversy is a little overblown but certainly any reasonable person can see that an endorsement from this dude is not something it makes sense to advertise.
I do sympathize with being a maintainer and fielding mob requests, like honestly who actually cares about a quote on the web page. I do think a lot of folks whip themselves into a frenzy over basically nothing, and this feels like an example of that - that he made WAY worse by not just immediately addressing it. It's not like people were going full torches and pitchforks, but this dude immediately reacted so defensively.
Resisting this at all makes it look so much worse.
Maybe he had a bad day Β―_(γ)_/Β―
Tbh it kind of looks like a case of, "Heads: we leave it up and get called fascist for having a fascist endorsement. Tails: we take it down and get called closet fascists for hiding getting a fascist endorsement."
We must tear asunder the past before we can truly deserve the future.
So that was an actual Hitler quote. The Hitler, not someone random a kid is calling Hitler.
And as I expected, no one even recognized it, and it even got an upvote from a neolib (receipts saved). And why not, it's a good quote, irrespective of its source!
This is yet another proof that people who shout "Nazi bar" everywhere (except the senate, congress, ...) actually know nothing about Nazis, the real actual Nazis, not whoever is getting the tag in the latest witch hunt, deservedly or (often) otherwise.
Anyone with a functioning intellectual brain recognized from day one that this manic genetic-fallacy guilt-by-association combo on the loose was itself a manifestation of the anti-intellectual post-truth new normal.
This is yet another proof that people who shout "Nazi bar" everywhere (except the senate, congress, ...) actually know nothing about Nazis
Drawing that conclusion from your comment's only response being one upvote is a leap.
Weak diversion attempt.
The main point was that people who shout "Nazi" wouldn't recognize literal Hitler quotes right in front them. I can play a "Hitler or " quotes game all day.
This reverse-Godwin* strain of mania is just getting old. And the illogical and counter-productive mob-like activity that comes with it doesn't work on people anymore. But feel free to continue circlejerking about it in mastodon and co.
*Call someone Nazi first, and go from there.
The main point was that people who shout "Nazi" wouldn't recognize literal Hitler quotes right in front them. I can play a "Hitler or " quotes game all day.
That's one of many conclusions that can be drawn from the fact that only one person engaged with your comment. It's just as valid to conclude that people who read it recognised it but didn't respond.
I understand your point, I just don't think it's held up by anything that's happened here. I also think it's a diversion from the main topic: a neovim maintainer doubled-down on siding with the racist idealogue DHH.
I haven't called DHH a Nazi. I'm perfectly content to call him a racist, because he says racist things and espouses racist views. It doesn't bother me if people do call him a Nazi, because to me his views and rhetoric are just as abhorrent even if they are not technically all tenets of National Socialism. Debating whether he meets all the criteria for being a Nazi or a Christian Nationalist or a Fascist is a distraction from acknowledging that the things he says have real, negative and dangerous consequences for marginalised people.
So that was an actual Hitler quote.
Are you sure? Because I can't find anything anywhere on the internet saying he said it.
Do you have his exact words in German so I can search for them?
The internet really is full of pansies these days.