this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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[–] TheDuckyNinja@alien.top 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most of this article is about how QBs are injured more than they used to be and aren't as good as they used to be. And that's funny, because both are wrong.

In 1997, the league passer rating was 77.2. In 2002, it was 80.4. In 2007, it was 82.6. In 2012, it was 85.6. In 2017, it was 86.9. In 2022, it was 89.1.

Objectively, QB play is better than it's ever been. So why is the perception that QBs are getting worse? I think it's a few reasons. The biggest is that people outside just don't remember the shit QBs of yesteryear. Yeah, if you compare Daniel Jones to Eli Manning, maybe he comes off looking bad. But then you go back to 2012 and you see guys like Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Brandon Weeden, and Mark Sanchez all being primary starters and it's easier to remember there's always been shit QBs. The other thing is that people tend to remember past QBs at their best, but most of the time, they were not at their best. I could talk about Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Ryan Tannehill playing in 2012, but they all sucked in 2012.

Basically, QBs are objectively better than they used to be. If you think QBs used to be better, your memory is simply playing tricks on you and you need to take off the nostalgia goggles. I know how much people hate when this is brought up, but I also think that for some people, there's a race component. 8 of the top 15 QBs by passer rating this season right now are black, and while it's not everybody, there is definitely a subset of people who consciously or unconsciously rate those QBs lower than the white QBs of the past.

In 1997, 16 QBs started 14+ games. In 2002, 18 QBs started 14+ games. In 2007, 15 QBs started 14+ games. In 2012, 25 QBs started 14+ games. In 2017, 23 QBs started 14+ games. In 2022, 15 QBs started 15+ games.

This one's a little trickier. First of all, I want to point out that this article quotes Trent Dilfer and Rich Gannon, who played during the era when QBs got injured/were benched at the same rate QBs are today. 2022 was also an outlier. 2020 had 21 QBs and 2021 had 19 QBs. 2023 has 23 QBs who have started 10-12 games so far. I don't have the reasons for every QB missing every game, and I'm sure you could use other metrics, but generally speaking, this again appears to be a case where people simply forget the past. It's a lot easier to remember the seasons where QBs played. It's more difficult to remember the seasons they missed. It's even more difficult to remember the seasons where they missed 4 games or whatever. I'd also point out that citing 8 QBs being out this week is a little weird. Tannehill and Garoppolo are healthy, their teams have just already packed it in for this season and they want to take a long look at their young QBs. 3 of the other 6 (Rodgers, Cousins, Jones) were injured on non-contact injuries. Dilfer saying these QBs are "soft" or "more hurt than ever" just isn't supported by anything. QBs missing games appears to be directly in line with the past.

The reason it's trickier is that there clearly was a period from 2008-2017 where there was slightly less QB attrition. 2012, 2016, and 2017 were especially good years for QBs playing a lot, but the average throughout that period was a little higher overall. What's the reason for that? No idea. Probably a variety of factors.

Anyway, this ended up getting longer than I intended. This is all just a really long way of saying people will always yearn for the better days of the past but the better days of the past were rarely better, and this is no exception.

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[–] TempleofSpringSnow@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Zach Wilson not being in this photo is the only win I can expect.

[–] Wh00ster@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Is this actually true or just recency bias?

I thought completion percentage was waaaay up across the league and I definitely notice it when watching games.

Like people are just noticing the dinking and dunking and that makes young QBs afraid to take risks and grow

[–] ReturnOfTheJurdski@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Sounds like New York Post is projecting.

[–] OnePieceAce@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Below average offensive line play is leading to QBs with bad fundamentals

[–] spicyfartz4yaman@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Front offices and coaching staff grabbing the guys they like as opposed to the guys they should get. Will never change.

[–] confetti_shrapnel@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

A lot of injured starters. BUT, I think the quality of play has been going down generally the past few years. I think the major reasons are the shortened camps, fewer vets attending camp, shortened preseason with fewer starters playing in preseason, and the trend toward young head coaches.

[–] V_Lombardi@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Backup QB’s are becoming more valuable than a lot of players at other starting positions. With the regular season being lengthened I think this trend will continue. I don’t think we’re far off from seeing teams with an established QB still draft a QB in the early 2nd round or even late 1st with the full intention of having them be the backup.

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[–] super_sayanything@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

I'm not saying mobile QBs can't be good but it just seems like QBs coming out aren't quick processors. Brady-Brees-Manning always made something out of nothing and that kept things moving. These guys are dropping back and finding trouble. I don't think big college programs prepare these guys because they play 3 years with big pockets and superior WR talent.

[–] jamesd1100@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Keep my man Tommy Chicken Cutlets outta the damn thumbnail

[–] Productpusher@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Watch the teams go back now to run heavy offenses

[–] DrStrawhat@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

It’s due, time is a circle

[–] volunbeers@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Arthur Smith has entered the chat… with his RB1… Jonnu Smith.

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[–] GluedGlue@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's the only way the Bears can win a Super Bowl.

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[–] ecupatsfan12@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Rich and Trent are right about the rules tho

[–] slimmymcnutty@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Given how massively slanted the game is towards QBs they don’t deserve any more rules to help them. Either figure out these defenses or run schemes more suited for guys skills.

[–] nkfish11@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Before it was too much of a passing league and now the QBs suck too much

[–] yaboyjiggleclay@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Tom Brady was right.

[–] Zackary_To_You@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Kirko Chainz goes down and this is the result smh, surely there's no other contributing factor to this phenomena than that

[–] Western_Promise3063@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Ew who posts nyp articles?

[–] Lubbafrommariogalaxy@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I think the biggest blame should go to o line, I feel like half the league has abysmal lines

[–] MinaElesia@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Some of the o-lines are bad to where they may as well be capital punishment.

[–] HarborCane@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

O line play is terrible these days. There just are not enough humans that have the size and athleticism to handle the freakish athletes that play d line in the nfl.

[–] Cooleybob@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

I think the issue is if you are a giant freakish athlete you probably get moved to d-line at some point in your football journey, leaving a smaller talent pool left playing o-line.

[–] Blastoplast@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I’ve heard speculation that part of the reason O-Line play isn’t as good is because during the last Collective Bargaining Agreement there’s stipulations against live o-line vs d-line drills. This might even mean they can’t work on basic fundamentals like pad level, footwork, positioning even at 1/2 speed.

[–] Wh00ster@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Wait the OLine doesn’t train against people during practice?

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[–] COMMENTASIPLEASE@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

D-line evolution has severely outpaced O-line’s in the last 5 or so years and it seems like it’s only gonna get worse.

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[–] Phenomenal2313@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Half the QB’s are injured and defenses have gotten better at stopping the big plays

Allen and Mahomes are both having “down seasons” by their standards , yet they’re probably going to finish with 4K passing yards and 30+ passing TD’s

[–] KevKevThePug@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago
[–] logster2001@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

It’s crazy because it’s not just that the bottom of the barrel QBs have looked especially bad this year, but the top guys haven’t looked as elite as usual either. Don’t get me wrong I still think guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, etc. they are still elite but just not quite as sharpe this year…CJ Stroud tho 🔥🔥🔥

[–] MarcusDA@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I’ve said this for awhile and people always hate it, but they basically need to make the QB off limits to hit unless they’re running. Like a sack would be you wrap him up and the play is whistled dead. I get that it would be lame, but is it any more lame than watching a shit ton of backups who can’t play?

Seriously, there’s like 20-25 people in the world who can be a competitive NFL QB. That’s it. After those 25 (and that’s being generous), you get absolute trash. They need to be protected more. This is a billion dollar industry, good QBs are the face of the franchises and they’re rare.

[–] Wh00ster@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

BOO THIS MAN

[–] Flaky_Dentist_5945@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I don’t get this take. We played decades with QBs getting hit and football was still great

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[–] Fineous4@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Time to nerf defenses I guess.

[–] Princeof_Ravens@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Defenses play well "The game sucks now"

I don't know man I enjoy watching good defense.

[–] Stubbs94@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Imagine having bad QB play... I can't remember the last time the Texans had that...

[–] daboys9252@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

DONT YOU TALK ABOUT MINSHEW LIKE THAT

[–] Rapidceltic@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

PI and defensive holding calls are way, way down. Receivers are getting mugged which causes QBs to hold the ball. Olines can't hold up. QBs get hurt.

[–] Venator850@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

This is such an overblown topic. There are only a handful of Qb's playing "great" any given season. I've been watching the NFL since 2005 and there was a time where you had like two guys playing at a high level then everybody else.

If anything I'd say Qb play is generally higher than it was 15 years ago.

[–] Writerhaha@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

The post cherry picks a bunch of journeymen to make their point in the photo…

[–] evilzug2000@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

How is Mac Jones not in this thumbnail?

[–] ComicsEtAl@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

All because Allen and Mahomes are interception machines this year. Boo hoo.

[–] twonkenn@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Says you! My QB is having a career year. Guess who!?!?

[–] Scaramussa@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Right now there's only two real elite guy (a first ballout HOF), Rodgers and Mahomes, and Rodgers is probably at end of his career. If you look at past decade or two, there was probably 4 or 5 at least.

There's a bunch of players with a lot of potential but that don't consistent perform at regular season, much less at playoffs. Right now there isn't a manning/brady in sight. Maybe burrow was supposed to be that guy, but it's the second time with a major injury in 4 years.

[–] Octavian_202@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

I’ve been saying this since last year. The middle of the pack guys only look good, because the bottom tier is that bad.

[–] MattTheSmithers@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

How Kenny Pickett avoided being in that photo is beyond me.

[–] NJ_Citizen@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago
  1. QBs athleticism and arm strength is more valued than their decision making skills and ability to read the defense. So when defenses force the QB to stay in the pocket, they miss all their reads and settle for a screen. 2) The run game isn’t used as much as it used to be. So instead of 2nd and 7, it’s 2nd and 10 a lot more which is a passing down and defenses are better prepared
[–] Splinter_Amoeba@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

Want more TDs? Cut salaries across the board for defenses. There, solved your problem NFL.

[–] NJ_Citizen@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There is a giant emphasis on having a big athletic quarterback, even though if you go back and look at Super Bowl winning QBs, almost none of them are like that. The QBs that win are more often than not pocket passers who make good decisions and can throw the ball downfield. Makes no sense why teams don’t build around QBs like that anymore. Daniel Jones for example is a terrible QB. Has been given 5 years to prove himself and hasn’t really improved at all since his rookie year. But he is athletic and can run, so he gets a chance.. again, makes absolutely no sense

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[–] Ok_Understanding1986@alien.top 1 points 2 years ago

For what it’s worth I think the niners are the only team averaging more run plays than pass this season.

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