this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
59 points (100.0% liked)

Privacy Guides

18729 readers
1 users here now

In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.

This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.


You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:

Learn more...


Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We've tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!

Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!


This community is the "official" Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other "Privacy Guides" communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.


Moderation Rules:

  1. We prefer posting about open-source software whenever possible.
  2. This is not the place for self-promotion if you are not listed on privacyguides.org. If you want to be listed, make a suggestion on our forum first.
  3. No soliciting engagement: Don't ask for upvotes, follows, etc.
  4. Surveys, Fundraising, and Petitions must be pre-approved by the mod team.
  5. Be civil, no violence, hate speech. Assume people here are posting in good faith.
  6. Don't repost topics which have already been covered here.
  7. News posts must be related to privacy and security, and your post title must match the article headline exactly. Do not editorialize titles, you can post your opinions in the post body or a comment.
  8. Memes/images/video posts that could be summarized as text explanations should not be posted. Infographics and conference talks from reputable sources are acceptable.
  9. No help vampires: This is not a tech support subreddit, don't abuse our community's willingness to help. Questions related to privacy, security or privacy/security related software and their configurations are acceptable.
  10. No misinformation: Extraordinary claims must be matched with evidence.
  11. Do not post about VPNs or cryptocurrencies which are not listed on privacyguides.org. See Rule 2 for info on adding new recommendations to the website.
  12. General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.

Additional Resources:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

How have others gotten friends/family to make the switch? I’ve been doing a cleanup of my digital life over the last year or so and am trying to move to using more privacy friendly alternatives where possible.

example: I’d love to switch to Signal only but everyone I know only uses WhatsApp. I’ve mentioned switching to people in the past but it’s always the same response (I don’t have anything to hide)

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 29 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Of all the privacy-related changes I've made, Signal is the only thing I've managed to get anyone else to use.

It was a matter of saying "I don't use WhatsApp anymore" and that was that. Some friends didn't make the switch, but they know where to find me.

Quitting Facebook lead people to believe that I was in need of help, though. They thought I was crazy. Still, today, people ask me why they can't tag me on FB or why I unfriended them. When I tell them I stopped using FB they're shocked and say things like, "but you're such a techy computer nerd guy."

Quitting Google was confusing for others too.

[–] frogmint@beehaw.org 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"but you're such a techy computer nerd guy."

that's the reason why

[–] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago

if only they knew how not-so-techy I really am...

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The unfortunate fact is that most people don’t care about their privacy until it’s violated. It’s weird.

[–] governorkeagan@lemdro.id 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I’ve seen people complain about companies like Meta and Google but then not make any effort to try and change…people can be weird sometimes.

I suppose there are a lot of factors at play, but still 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 2 years ago (4 children)

There's a balance between principles and practicality and for a lot of people it just hasn't tipped yet. I'm kind of in that boat myself.

On principle, I'd like to eliminate Google from my life entirely.

In practice, there is no good alternative to Google Maps. I've tried a bunch of OSM-based apps and they're just not there yet. So I use Google Maps. Not happy about it, but I still use it.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Apple Maps is a good alternative if you have an iPhone. Apple may not be a whole lot better, but at least they aren’t an advertising company.

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I use osmand in conjunction with gps-coordinates.net so I can get the GPS coordinates of addresses to put into osmand since it has a serious lack of addresses

[–] h3ndrik@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Open street map data is created by volunteers. Where I live, you can practically put in any address into OsmAnd and it'll know it. Maybe you live too far out. Or there aren't enough people contributing in your area. Putting in the house numbers is a tedious task.

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I highly suspect it's a lack of contributors since I live in a small city in the United States (~50k population).

[–] h3ndrik@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Ah, okay. Different continent, ~500k people here. More if you count the neighboring cities. I've programmed in a few house numbers like 10 years ago. But generally speaking, OSM knows most hiking routes and illegal mountainbike trails in the woods. And it rarely does silly mistakes while routing me in the car. Something it used to do regularly when I started using it. Guess the experience heavily depends on where you live, then.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yep. And YouTube on teevee, just got to pay for it. I can't suffer these ads.

No real replacement as of now for either.

Imagine paying and they are still mining you.

Wtf sort of dystopian bullshit time line is this.

Stop using them for everything else.

[–] smeg@feddit.uk 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Ironically I found the best way to watch YouTube on the TV was to pay Google for a "Chromecast with Android TV" (or whatever it's called) and install SmartTube on it. I could have spent a while tinkering around with my Raspberry Pi to create some custom solution and given Google no money, but this cost less than 2 months of YouTube premium and now I've got a device I can do whatever with.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TheButtonJustSpins 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I just switched to Petal Maps, though it doesn't warn me if a place is closing soon.

[–] Nusm@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

I’d like to give Petal Maps a serious try, but for some reason it doesn’t work with CarPlay. So it’s a no-go for me.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] apis@beehaw.org 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Start sending invites to Signal. Setting up group chats can help too, as invitations to those create mild FOMO in the mind of the invitee, then once they have the app they can use it for things besides group chats.

[–] governorkeagan@lemdro.id 3 points 2 years ago

I’ll give that a try!

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I have a few friends and family on Signal. Pretty much everyone uses other services too (including myself) but Signal is installed on a few

  • I talk to some friends / family on Signal exclusively. They either already cared about it, or they're close enough that they trust my recommendation / still don't care but want to put in the effort

  • I talk to some friends / family on Signal only when we want to have a more private conversation

  • Some people won't ever be convinced, I talk to them on other services or in person when privacy is important. I set up boundaries to protect myself, and people usually respect that.

This way I protect myself while respecting other people's choices.

For you I'd recommend focussing on the second option. When you need to talk privately, ask the person to install it and give a short explanation for why it's better. If they do, then great it's installed and it'll get used once in a while. Maybe they will see other people and build up the network. If they don't install it, then suggest an alternative like talking in person

[–] ritchie@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

I tell everyone that messenger is not installed on my phone and I check messages once a week. So if they contact me there, expect a one week response time. (Or more.)

[–] tesseract@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I don’t have anything to hide

Great! Then I guess they don't mind giving you their bank password, credit card pin, details of all the medicines they take, information from the work they do, their detailed weekly activity schedule, their browser history, their investment portfolio and assets, etc, etc... I'm salivating at the thought of the hundreds of different ways in which I can make money with all that info!

[–] Chinzon@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Sacrificing privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you're ok giving up free speech because you have nothing to say

[–] Vexz@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago

Not even gonna name the source where you got that from? :P

[–] spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

Funny thing is that a lot of people actually do give pins and shit. I know more than a few people that straight up gave me their card and the pin number to buy shit when I was a kid.

Besides, giving embarrassing information to a faceless billion dollar company does not feel as bad as giving it to someone who judges you if they find that info embarrassing. It's illogical but that's how a lot of people think.

[–] root@aussie.zone 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

"I don't have anything to hide"

I prefer to suggest a different mindset - "It's not that I have nothing to hide. It's that I have nothing I want anybody to see"

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Droid_B612@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's worse for me in my country, 90% of people use Viber. Which not only has the same lack of privacy with other popular messengers, it's also ugly, filled with ads and company bots, and it's obviously targeted to teenagers. It's so weird to me that people use this app, but I guess most people's choice is always "whatever my most contacts use". I've been trying to introduce my friends to something better, I would prefer Signal but literally zero of my contacts use it. On Telegram on the other hand, I found 4-5 of my contacts already using it so I started from there, added my family too, and I'm slowly trying to add more friends. Until then, like others said, I'll use whatever for a casual message, and I'll just call the person for anything more personal or private.

[–] spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah that's what sucks about this. But you don't have to really call for intimate messages. WhatsApp cannot read you message since it's E2EE but they do store and use the metadata. So a casual message and an intimate messages are the same in a WhatsApp server's eyes.

[–] ritchie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Viber is really very annoying, constantly nagging me about their "newest stickers" and other crap. When I open it, it's like times square on my phone with all the garbage ads...

You're not going to convince anyone to suffer inconvenience for something that has no tangible benefit in their eyes. The best you can do is give people the option to contact you on Signal and explain (briefly) why you prefer it. After enough experience, you realize there is no argument you can make that will convince people to care about privacy. The people who join you on Signal either already care about privacy (but maybe didn't realize it) or value your comfort over theirs.

Personally, I would rather send unencrypted SMS instead of using a Meta-owned service. I don't want to be part of the network effect keeping people on Facebook. Everyone with a SIM card in their phone already has access to SMS, but few use it if they can help it, so I don't think I'm contributing to a network effect by doing this. The only MMS client I use is Signal, so anyone can contact me over there if they want more functionality. That's the only tactic I use, and so far, it has been unsuccessful.

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I got no one to switch. Eventually I just gave up as people were getting sick of me always recommending alternatives no one else uses.

[–] Vexz@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago

Either they're okay with a switch and it's easy or they are not open for that and it's impossible to change their mind.

Pretty much nobody I know wants to switch to Signal or any other messaging app. So it's SMS communication with them because I definitely won't install WhatsApp.

[–] TheButtonJustSpins 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's a slow change, honestly. Just do what you can with your own services.

[–] governorkeagan@lemdro.id 1 points 2 years ago

It’s unfortunate but at least it’s moving.

[–] kpw@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Signal is not much better than WhatsApp or any other walled garden messenger without provider choice. Don't waste your time and energy to move people to walled gardens. A better idea would be to use providers and apps that support the federated internet standard XMPP: https://joinjabber.org

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] kpw@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Which encryption protocol is labeled with a warning? The link I posted makes choosing a client very easy.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] kpw@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes, the XSF has a very high bar what a standard is and what not, so the many protocol extensions are labeled experimental. However that doesn't mean implementations are "incomplete" or "insecure". OMEMO has good support nowadays and the implementation in Conversations has been independently audited.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] kpw@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

How regularly should I check if Signal has become an interoperable internet standard?

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–] lwuy9v5@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Just start using Signal. Don't push it for a reason for people who don't care, just let people know "Hey, message me here". The more people that use it - the better for everyone - whether they benefit or not.

The second part of that is use things like WhatsApp less or not at all, but you can always start with the first part. Maybe you already have folks on signal, and you can just start messaging them there until more folks come over.

load more comments
view more: next ›