this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by wischi@programming.dev to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 

https://zeta.one/viral-math/

I wrote a (very long) blog post about those viral math problems and am looking for feedback, especially from people who are not convinced that the problem is ambiguous.

It's about a 30min read so thank you in advance if you really take the time to read it, but I think it's worth it if you joined such discussions in the past, but I'm probably biased because I wrote it :)

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[–] Yamainwitch@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I just finished your article and wow! I'm definitely going to save it and share it the next time I come across another one of those viral problems. It was incredibly thorough and well researched, you clearly put a lot of energy and effort into it and it blew me away. It was really refreshing to see someone articulate themselves so passionately with supporting research. I look forward to reading more of your work!! 👏

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[–] BangersAndMash@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

A couple of edits (not trying to be rude but people sent to your article are going to be pedantic)

*current beliefs

This sentence needs editing: "They even split the category into two and the make a distinction between implicit multiplication with variables other implicit multiplications."

[–] wischi@programming.dev 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Thank you for reading the post, and thanks for pointing that out. Should be fixed and live in the next few minutes.

Update: Also fixed that sentence. Thank you so much.

[–] SkiDude@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It’s also clearly not a bug as some people suggest. Bugs are – by definition – unintended behavior.

There are plenty of bugs that are well documented. I can't tell you the number of times that I've seen someone do something wrong, that they think is 100% right, and "carefully" document it. Then someone finds an edge case and points out the defined behavior has a bug, because the human forgot to account for something.

The other thing I'd point out that I didn't see in your blog is that I've seen many many people say they need to evaluate the 2(3) portion first because "parenthesis". No matter how many times I explain that this is a notation for multiplication, they try to claim it doesn't matter because parenthesis. screams into the void

The fact of the matter is that any competent person that has to write out one of these equations will do so in a way that leaves no ambiguity. These viral math posts are just designed to insert ambiguity where it shouldn't be, and prey on people who can't remember middle school math.

[–] wischi@programming.dev 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Regarding your first part in general true, but in this case the sheer amount of calculators for both conventions show that this is indeed intended behavior.

Regarding your second point I tried to address that in the "distributive property" section, maybe I need to rewrite it a bit to be more clear.

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[–] tiago@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Damn ragebait posts, it's always the same recycled operation. They could at least spice it up, like the discussion about absolute value. What's |a|b|c|?

What I gather from this, is that Geogebra is superior for not allowing ambiguous notation to be parsed 👌

[–] wischi@programming.dev 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Your example with the absolute values is actually linked in the "Even more ambiguous math notations" section.

Geogebra has indeed found a good solution but it only works if you input field supports fractions and a lot of calculators (even CAS like WolframAlpha) don't support that.

[–] tiago@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago

Yeah! That's why I mentioned it, it was a fresh ambiguous notation problem that I've never encountered before. Discussions of "is it 1 or 9" get tiring quickly.

At least WA and others tell you how they interpret the input, instead of being a black box (until you get to the manuals). Even though it is obvious in hindsight, I didn't get why two calculators would yield different results; thanks!

Nice write-up.

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[–] Brak@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

i didn’t fully understand the article, but it was really interesting reading summaries & side discussions in the comments here!

i enjoy content like this that demonstrates how math is at its heart a useful tool for conceptualizing things vs some kind of immutable force.

[–] doctorn@r.nf 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I don't see the problem actually.

  1. Everything between ()
  2. Exponents
  3. multiply and devision
  4. plus and minus
  5. Always work from left to right.

==========

  1. 1+2= 3

  2. No exponents

    • 6 devised by 2 (whether a fraction or not) is 3
    • 3 times 3 is 9
  3. Nothing remains

[–] Th4tGuyII@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

The meme refers to the problem of handling implicit multiplication by juxtaposition.
Depending on what field you're in, implicit multiplication takes priority over explicit multiplication/division (known as strong juxtaposition) rather than what you and a lot of people would assume (known as weak juxtaposition).

With weak juxtaposition you end up 9 just as you did, but with strong juxtaposition you end up with 1 instead.

For most people and most scenarios this doesn't matter, as you'd never encounter such ambiguous equations outside of viral puzzles like this, but it is worth knowing that not all fields agree on how implicit multiplication is handled.

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[–] panicnow@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is a very nice piece that had so much information I did not know. Toward the top of the article I was wishing for footnotes, references or something that would indicate it was not just your opinion, but as I got further into the piece you provided so many great references. I thought the calculator manuals were particularly accessible and convincing. Thanks for a great read!

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[–] damnthefilibuster@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children)

What the heck are you all fighting about? It’s BODMAS.

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