Ron Desantis for President 2024

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This is a place for news items and serious discussion related to the candidacy of Ron Desantis for the Presidency of the United States. Insults and name-calling are not welcome. If you have criticisms, please back them up with facts and citations.

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As President, I will restore American sovereignty. (twitter.com)

submitted 2 years ago by veritas@exploding-heads.com to c/desantis4president@exploding-heads.com

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RT @RonDeSantis@twitter.com: “To the Left, citizenship is meaningless. Illinois is now letting illegal aliens become police officers.

In Florida, we took action to combat the harms of Biden’s border crisis. We also value our citizen officers who serve and protect our communities.

As President, I will restore American sovereignty.

No illegal alien should have authority over any American citizen. It is a sad commentary on the state of America that this is even a debate.

https://twitter.com/RonDeSantis/status/1685716391100309504

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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Hey, just so it's perfectly clear to everyone, anti-immigrant talk is never really about getting rid of the immigrants, it's about creating a permanent underclass of labor that's easy to exploit because:

-They can't complain to the government without being found out, so no OSHA

-They can be threatened with deportation at any time. Oh, you want a raise? Sounds like you want to be deported.

-They can't easily or safely change employers

It's not illegals coming and taking your jobs. Many times when illegal immigrants are removed, employers who relied on them just go out of business because they can't afford to attract legal citizens willing to do the work. We saw something of this in Florida when a relevant person passed immigration laws. The jobs were open, anyone could have taken them, but they didn't. What does hurt you is the government enforcing the existence of a permanent labor underclass, because not only is it immoral, but it also cheapens all labor, makes and exploits desperate people, drives employers to promote these kinds of policies by donating to people like Ron, and depends of the government passing cruel, foolish, or arcane laws to hurt people in cruel, foolish, or arcane ways. Cruel, foolish governments that make cruel, foolish laws, often hurt the 'wrong' (massive sarcasm quotes here) people and lose very little sleep over it.

[–] Calculate2093@exploding-heads.com 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is the same true if they have a workers visa?

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Worker visas, as the exist today, are a better situation than being here illegally, however:

The supply of work visas is far, far outstripped by demand. This functionally creates a black market, where people would happily do things the legal way, but don't have access to it. I lived in Honduras in 03-06, and knew people who wanted to get visas to come to the US legally, but the process was intentionally obtuse and inaccessible. People wanting to come and stay in America needed to be married, own land (in Honduras, very very few people own land), or have 10,000 USD equivalent in the bank (lmao), pick two. People in Honduras who have land or 10,000 USD in the bank aren't going to give up upper class life where they're at to come struggle in the US, so the immigration rules functionally boiled down to: "no." As we all know, it's a truism that bans don't work, and they haven't here. So, with no legal option realistically available, people go about it using other means. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is by design, but I can't prove it.
Work visas also encourage exploitation because the employer can functionally revoke it by firing the visa holder. This creates massive leverage for the employer, and encourages the work visa holder to subject themselves to all manner of abuse. Additionally, it's a huge gamble for someone on a work visa to try and change jobs for that same reason. Imagine that you lost your citizenship if you lost your job, can you imagine what kind of a screwed up power dynamic that would create between you and your employer?
IIRC, they don't offer a path to citizenship. This one's a little murkier, but the point is that it's harder to build community and support among your peers when your presence is all but guaranteed to be impermanent. Even if you wanted to argue that work visas should strictly be about work, building social networks is a hugely important part of creating real value and opportunities later on. People without support networks or some kind of community ties tend to have worse outcomes across the board, and in this case we're replacing human networks with the business that's hired them. Again, it's not hard to imagine how that could be a situation that lends itself to exploitation.

So, work visas are better than illegal immigration. However, they still need a lot of work to not be terrible, and it's not always as simple as "just get a work visa!"