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In my opinion it’s because in the past human beings needed to be constantly working or assisting with a group in some capacity in order to ensure mutual survival for the group. Let’s say a village.
Activity which is not seen as being productive or could be construed as lazy has a stigma around it because it casts doubt on your ability to contribute to society.
Obviously none of this applies in the same way these days but there is a kind of primal conflation of intoxicants and laziness. Laziness is bad and so consuming intoxicants turns into a moral issue.
These attitudes are very deeply ingrained and although they can shift a bit as people become more liberal the deep suspicion remains.
Youre assuming there's no use in using intoxicants, but there very much are. Arguably the most important, in terms of larger humanity.
Those "deeply grained" attitudes are the product of 20th century propaganda.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Binge
In WWI it was completely normal to send your son/friend a package of morphine, cocaine and syringes.
And what I'm talking about is "mind-expanding" substances.
Alcohol literally depresses neural activity and makes it so you lose your coordination and eventually get sedated. It's the most "lazy" substance there is, yet none of these "deeply ingrained" attitudes concern it?
So no.
I don’t think there is a correct answer to the question you are posing. You asked for people’s opinions and I gave you mine.
And I showed you how it obviously can't be that. Come up with a new explanation.
Not fucking with you, if you could genuinely think of another, I'd be pleased.
There is a correct answer. It's the inordinate amounts of drug propaganda, and people's tendency to self-reinforce and perpetuate that propaganda.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ehrlichman#Drug_war_quote
— John Erlichman, Nixon's "right hand" man
No, that’s just your opinion.
Did you ever stop to think that the propaganda you speak of is directly influenced by exactly what steeznson was speaking about?
Why do you believe that anti-drug propaganda only began in the 20th century?
Do you have anything other than wikipedia links to back your stance up? Say, a real study done on the impacts of anti-drug propaganda through the ages which demonstrates that the 20th century was the most militant with it?
Do you know what Religion is, and its impacts on anti-drug mentalities predating the 20th century?
No. But the vast vast majority did.
People were playing around with electricity in ancient Greece as well. (Electricity coming from the word for amber, even). But if you asked someone "when electricity was invented", I'm sure you wouldn't even think of anything before 1600.
"Other than Wikipedia links"
You do realise Wikipedia puts down sources, right?
"Do you have proof that the ground was dry before it starter raining, despite the rain having started decades before you were born?"
If you're honestly interested, you can find tons of literature. Foremost though for figuring out what most people think; speaking to them. Like I said, I've spoken to thousand of people about this. That isn't anecdotal, that is hard data I have, but I understand you won't accept it.
You can see how some prohibition of cannabis began in the 19th century due to Egyptian cotton farmers wanting to get bigger market share. This was then copied to America with the 1937 Marihuana tax act, and later they'd push the laws through UN who'd make them global because of US pressure.
Do you think the people in India would've ever voted to criminalise cannabis? For the whole century it's been banned, it's been ridiculous. All the cops who arrest people for it smoke.
There's literally actual tons of material on this stuff.
https://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/reports/the-war-on-drugs
And are you a bit thick if you're saying that these attitudes have always been with humans, when literally everything shows you they haven't? The Great Binge itself is proof UK and US both having enjoyed the pharmaceuticals at the turn of the 20th century. And again, those were opiates and cocaine.
I'm talking shrooms and weed.
"The word comes from the Greek elektron (“amber”); the Greeks discovered that amber rubbed with fur attracted light objects such as feathers. Such effects due to stationary charges, or static electricity, were the first electrical phenomena to be studied."
https://www.britannica.com/summary/electricity
Here is something to help you in understanding more about the topic of magnetism, static electricity, and what the ancient Greeks were talking about regarding both.
https://worldscientific.com/doi/pdf/10.1142/9789813223776_0001
I am curious why you believe any of that is relevant to a discussion about Anti-drug propaganda.
Yes it is. Literally the definition of "anecdotal".
anecdotal, Adjective, "Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis."
You are free to provide your study about the thousand individuals you interviewed with the same questions regarding anti-drug propaganda to demonstrate it is in fact not anecdotal.
Name 10 books on the subject including the authors.
Feel free to actually answer my questions, and try to keep personal attacks like this
out of it.
You're not aware of prohibitions and now surrendered your whole "do you think there weren't any drug prohibitions before the 20th century" point, because I actually know the topic, and you don't.
It would be... but...
... unless I actually did it systemically and collected results, which I have done. Amateurish, yes, but still not casual. Would you like to see my files? They're in Finnish, with my own notation about what people respond with. It's honestly baffling how small the options are for people, and how they all think they're actually making a point, with some idiotic bullshit like "I don't want my doctor operating on me while they're on drugs" or some other completely ridiculous propaganda bullshit from some "Just Say No" campaign. I could draw a flowchart on an A4, wouldn't even need an A3, lol.
First let me say that everyone knows you're trying to set impossible goals, because you know you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate, so you think a number you pull out your arse means anything, but I will give you literature on the subject, as requested, because I've actually fucking studied this for probably longer than you've been alive, despite you thinking I haven't and am some random druggie — something which is all too common when you bring up the subject. People like you get what are essentially panic attacks when asked to question the propaganda programmed into their heads. It must be a horrible feeling, when being asked a question you've just claimed to be 100% sure about, to realise that you don't actually have any reasons to believe what you believe and that you have no idea why you believe it, but you do know that you MUST NOT QUESTION IT.
Probably the best book is "Good Cop, Bad War" by Neil Woods:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Cop-Bad-Neil-Woods/dp/1785034758
Obviously you won't even open that link, let alone buy a book, let alone READ IT. (Not to mention doing it for 10 books hahaha). So here, have a Youtube video with the author (who is a former drug cop) How Drug Gangs Actually Work | How Crime Works | Insider
All of those "How Crime Works" by Insider related to drugs are actually fantastic watches, deeply recommend them for people like you to open your eyes.
The Cato Institute also write well on the subject and have actual data as well: https://www.cato.org/cato-handbook-policymakers/cato-handbook-policymakers-9th-edition-2022/war-drugs#repeal-controlled-substances-act
I mean, ofc there's Mr. Nice as well, which might be on your level and tons of other drug-war adjacent books, but this is about what actual reality and science have to say about the drug war, not reading through the memento's of some insanely rich druglords.
If you're defending the prohibition of drugs, you're either ignorant on the subject, or you're actively supporting organized crime / making money off the situation. Literally. There is no other alternative. You're in the group which is ignorant of it, because you're brainwashed to even avoid information on the subject.
https://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/world-leaders-call-for-legalisation-of-drugs
See most the things I read on the topic are actually studies or news, not books. You know scientific studies are "literature", right? Anyway, the Good Cop, Bad War was the most recent one I read about the actual politics. I seriously suggest it, might wash that propaganda off your noggin.
There's literally not a single person who understands the topic and doesn't realise there is NO WAY that the prohibition will EVER work. Look at how the prohibition of alcohol went, then recall the saying "history repeats itself."
Now, since I've more or less done what you've asked and answered your points, how about you stop ignoring my rhetoric and extend me the same courtesy? So... ANY science at all that says that drug prohibition is actually doing what it's supposed to? Any science at all saying decriminalisation/legalisation is bad for society? ANY at all? Oh there isn't? Not ONE? Wow, I'm so shocked, if only I could've seen this coming, eh?
Logical Fallacy.
Oh look more logical fallacy with a heavy sprinkle of personal attack. I have a purple unicorn, but I cannot show it to you. Just trust me.
Everyone knows I am setting impossible goals?
https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=drug+prohibition&i=stripbooks&crid=2FSM60LK4GVDJ&sprefix=drug+prohibition%2Cstripbooks%2C185&ref=nb_sb_noss
Here are 254 results for books regarding "Drug prohibition".
People like me? You don't know anything about me. It would help if you responded in good faith by answering the questions posed, and maybe asking some of your own.
Honestly the logical fallacy and personal attacks have become quite tiresome.
Show me where I said I support drug prohibition. Also, more logical fallacy.
I think I have explicitly demonstrated how you have not answered a single question, and fell back on logical fallacy and personal attacks numerous times. I never made a claim in support of drug prohibition.
You are not worth any further time. Feel free to write another novel in the comments.
Fair warning, it will be ignored.
Oh, you're one of those.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy
It is entirely possible to make a claim that is false yet argue with logical coherency for that claim, just as it is possible to make a claim that is true and justify it with various fallacies and poor arguments.
In the sense of arbitrary goals which mean absolutely nothing and which you never expected me to fulfill anyway. Almost as if you didn't ask that in... good faith. Oh great master debater, perhaps you need to check the basics of rhetoric again? https://cssah.famu.edu/departments-and-centers/visual-arts-humanities-and-theatre/philosophy-and-religion/ctresources/Argument%20Basics.docx
"What's an implication"
You literally have not. You've engaged in bad faith bullshit, while thinking you have some gothas. I'm more and more certain that I've been arguing this longer than you've actually been alive. (Like 95% sure.)
"Help me, I'm pretending to be smart but also, I can't read anything that's more than three phrases!"
You literally can not even question your attitude towards the subject due to propaganda.
I linked literature just like you asked. Perhaps it doesn't matter, because you didn't ask in good faith, and are just a thrashy pseudointellectual kid who's pretending to argue a thing they know nothing about, while thinking writing "fallacy" means something, while pretending their implications don't exist.
Git gud nob
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection
"I won't be replying anymore" was in your last comment, was it not?
See this is why I left my comment in the first place; people like you get so irrationally emotional over this that there's no talking about it.
Is it that you've been lied to, or is it that you actually happened to believe something so ridiculous?
The propaganda is so strong, that you're defending the prohibition and drug propaganda, because you don't want to admit having been influenced by it.
Got a bit angry about that "fallacy fallacy" thing as well, I think. You thought you had some sort of gotcha or something, but you're really bad at debating man. You're arguing nothing, and all you're doing is poorly imitating what you've seen other people say in some debates, without even understanding the things you talk about.
We have to get rid of the prohibition, but because of people like you, it's very hard.
I am high as Giraffe pussy right now.
Your argument is invalid.
That's a bit like saying "I can't be racist, I'm black". I know there are people who believe it, but it doesn't make it true, does it?
I answered your points, but all you keep doing is larping an intellectual. Why did you ask for 10 books on the subject? Because you wanted to know if the situation is as I say it is. I link a book saying it definitely is. You have a tantrum.
So you definitely agree that the prohibition of all drugs has to be lifted, for the good of society?
Actually it is a bit like saying you threw a tantrum over questions you couldn't answer and assumed I was pro drug prohibition because of it.
You know what they say about assuming right?
You haven't answered my questions, as I wasn't making points.
That is another failure of perception based on your defensive demeanor, caused by the aforementioned tantrum and assumptions. The amount of projection and mental gymnastics you are doing to make me out to be you is humorous.
No, I don't agree that the prohibition of all drugs has to be lifted for the good of society. Just like I do not agree that prohibition of all drugs must be in place for the good of society. Both statements are equally asinine.
What I do believe is drugs should be available for use by consenting adults in a heavily regulated market coupled with intense social safety nets to deal with drug use related problems.
This edit is hilarious as well. Made especially funny by the fact that no one is arguing for drug prohibition.
You got an answer to your question "Why is society so afraid of people purposefully altering their mental state? (In terms of cannabis, psychedelics, anything "mind-expanding.)", and me asking you questions.
Not once was a pro prohibition argument made against you, yet you keep hammering that nail like everyone is against you.
You should address the victim mentality, need to attack and demean others to make points, and inability to listen to another persons point if you want to have more success communicating with others.
Except I did answer your questions. Address the first book I've given, and then we'll talk about nine others, mkay? Or was there perhaps zero reason for you to ask them, because you were asking in bad faith and had no response to when me offering actual literature as an answer, and now you're just pissy about it?
Then you're either ignorant of the subject, or directly benefitting from the prohibition. There's simply no other alternative. The prohibition of drugs is harmful to society.
That is them being legal. I never said "unrestricted access to any drug", did I? (But you won't have the same asinine literal criteria for your own arguments as you're trying to do with mine, showing yet another measure of pretentiousness.)
You're arguing against the facts of the matter, and now pretending like you don't know that you've only now stated your opinion on the matter, and clearly argued against me, who made his stance very clear. You're just so pretentious it twists my stomach.
It is really funny to me that you keep cherry picking my responses. It is even more funny that you believe I am arguing against "the facts of the matter".
What do you believe is the difference between "Prohibition of all drugs to be lifted" and "unrestricted access to any drug"?
Last I checked prohibition means "to prohibit", or in other words "to restrict", so a lack of prohibition is a lack of restriction. In your own words "Prohibition of all drugs has to be lifted for the good of society".
To quote you, to you.
I will pose my questions one more time.
I am most interested in your answer on the last question regarding religion, because you have dodged that one completely while merely touching on the others in your rants.
Is it because to acknowledge religions influence on drug prohibition is to acknowledge that you are wrong about anti drug propaganda "technically" starting in the 20th century just like electricity was "technically" discovered by ancient Greeks?
You should really read that link I commented about "projection".
Man you had a lot more effort to dedicate to this guy than me lol
I wonder when he'll realise that everyone he's been rude to was basically agreeing with him
More time than effort on my part. You know you have nothing going on when interacting with a person like that is a reasonable way to kill time. lol
I'm not sure they ever will realize that. We probably wound up being posted on some anti drug prohibition forum with a "see what I have to deal with?" title and a lot of circle jerking. haha
I have some empathy I remember posting on /r/drugs when I was 16 too...
I am not sure if you meant it as such, but that was a great burn. haha
I absolutely empathize with the "Bullheaded, everyone is wrong but me" teenage mentality as well. Especially that mentality mixed with unfettered access to the internet.
Age sure does wear it thin though. haha
See, but you are wrong, and now you're trying to pretend you're not, because you're a ~20 something male who can't accept when they make a mistake, and they always have to learn through being humiliated, than being ashamed for a few weeks, and then not doing that same mistake publicly again.
Remember the time you actually linked "that's a fallacy" , thinking naming a fallacy means you "win" a debate, when you presumed that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made, that the claim itself must be wrong, when obviously, that's not the case.
But you're pretending we're not arguing over drug "liberalisation", so which is it? Am I arguing with you over that, or something else?
So you get to ignore all the stupid mistakes you made, and say what the conversation is about? Seems like you haven't had any conversations in real life...
Oh God, more of this. It's so clear what you value and what you pretend to be. Like when you thought that you'd win an argument by yelling out "fallacy", as if that meant that another person has to be wrong. Showing so clearly that you think that is an incredibly clear sign of how immature you are, philosophically.
You're pretending you don't know what an implication is (while still arguing based on what you think I implied), you're pretending like drug wars didn't start in the 20th century, and you're pretending you didn't say all the stupid shit you did. So, what do you think of the book? (Which you haven't read, like you've not read any others on the subject either.)
Quite frankly, I thank you for the entertainment.
A "war ON drugs" is a bit different from "a war FOR drugs". Perhaps you don't speak English?
The opioid wars weren't wars ON drugs.
Genuinely I wonder how people like you aren't ashamed to post. Genuinely baffles me.
You don't even read the comments you reply to. Vice laws have been tried several times in history.
You just don't know your fucking history, yet you're childish enough to argue me without even having a fucking point. It's pathetic.
It's generally accepted the war on drugs "really" began in the 70's, in the form it is today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs
This is evident from a whole lot of historic facts — all of which you're unaware of, obviously.
Hey how about that time when you thought that saying "fallacy" wins you an argument?
Remember, you larping someone who understand how debating works? Remember that? Oh you don't, because it'd show just how much of a master debater you are?: )
No, he's not agreeing with me.
You don't understand the propaganda.
Do you think that if everyone who agreed on cannabis being mostly harmless, we'd still have cannabis prohibition? Ofc not.
And cannabis isn't even causing the most harm. We can actually get rid of drug cartels and make hundreds of billions of dollars in tax money by legalising drugs, but the efforts to do so are slowed by fucknuts like you and him who don't realise that you can slow something down even when you pretend to agree with it.
You should check a dictionary. A prohibition is when something is illegal to sell. Do you think if something isn't illegal, it's unrestricted? Why would you think that?
And I stand by that.
I've answered your questions, but you're not asking them for any reason. You're pretending to ask them for a reason. Honestly, what are you, like, 20? This is insanely childish.
#Show me drug propaganda from the 19th century please. I'll wait right here. You will desperately google some, but the only thing you'll find from the 19th century is drug adverts, not propaganda. There are a few cases in history of so called vice laws, but prohibition =/= drug propaganda. Perhaps you didn't realise that, huh?
I do yes. You do not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen
Why did you ask for me to mention ten books when you can't address a single one that I name? Perhaps because you're a sort of silly little boy who's pretending to know a lot about something they don't, thinking that because they've smoked weed, they're not "against the prohibition", while actively fighting it.
Anyone supporting the prohibition of drugs is acting against the well-being of society in general. That's an indisputable fact I can and have backed with peer-reviewed studies.
edit oh that's a fun comment about "projection" from some teen who thinks he "wins" debates by saying "that's a fallacy" as if you've ever opened a philosophy book :DD let alone understood the first thing about psychology. you've tried your teenage gotchas several times and i've shown you how much of a tit you were being and wow, you instantly stop with the argument I made you feel stupid about.