this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2025
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Sort of, at least for myself.
Granted, I only have Autism and not ADHD, but it seems to me that the top down vs bottom up descriptions I can find are innacurate.
Autistics love, demand, well defined categories, and once they are established to a logically coherent and resilient degree, they can be used as new set of tools to either start from, aim toward, or attempt to associate with other categories or specifics.
Most of the language I can find on this... tends to describe autistic 'bottom up' thinkers as basically not being able to use or construct categories, which frankly I find quite insulting, I am better with logically consistent categories than any allistic person I've ever met in the real, full stop.
Find me an allistic set theory mathematician, prove me wrong lol.
And also, this top down bottom up language or framework I am finding also misses the crucial distinction that I am making, that for an autist, thoughts are active, conscious, an autistic is rattling off their entire thought process in real time when rambling, can trace every step of it if someone is willing to listen to all of that.
Allistics largely don't, and largely can't, not without teaching themselves how to introspect and do metacognition... whereas those things are basically the default for autistics.
The sort of 'thought paralysis' that an Autistic person can experience... I would say that in fact largely comes down to the realization of a fundamental category break, that is so significant that it basically demands a total refactoring of the Autistic's consciously constructed systemic approach to analyzing/understanding ... potentially, their entire existence.
A person who doesn't care about or use categories would just brush this off, for an Autistic, it is potentially an existential crisis.
I also find it funny that a psychologist could literally just ask an Autistic person like myself how this works, what the actual train of thought is, how it works... and, unless they are also autistic, they never do, they just do their best at theorizing, and so far, well they are slowly getting there, sort of.
@sp3ctr4l
Hmm, I don't know if bottom up precludes the use of categories. When I use them, I still try to collect more data to add towards supporting or going against the category. I only rely on them when expediency is required. Whereas allists prefer to rely on them. But I am ADHD as well, to add another data point.
I get what you are saying about the conscious vs. subconscious difference. I just noticed that the pattern was similar to the top-down/bottom up thing so was wondering if there is a connection. Clearly I need more data. :blob_cat_thinking: π
I mean, maybe I have only read about 'top down' vs 'bottom up' thinking descriptions from... ... ... bad psychologists?
Who knows!
But yes, you seem to agree with me that Autists are... really all about constructing actually valid categories and very often checking them for potential inconsistencies, whereas allists tend to just be fine with fuzzy logic for that.
Yes uh, please add me / my thoughts to your data pile, as another autist, I would be honored, as I in return add you and your thoughts to my own data pile =P
@sp3ctr4l
:BlobCatSmiley:
Unfortunately that only renders for me as the text code, do I need to pay for some kind of dlc to see your custom emoji?
@sp3ctr4l
I'm not sure how it works. Could be it'll come with time, or you need to click on the server, or follow someone on that server, or vice versa. π€·
It was just a happy face, except a "blob cat" style. https://www.pngitem.com/pimgs/m/588-5880321/_blob-cat-emoji-discord-hd-png-download.png
Oh there we go, direct link works!
my guess would be it is custom to your instance and/or not cached by my mobile lemmy browser.
cute blobcat tho
No official diagnosis because that costs money in America, but almost certainly some variety of the AuDHD combo. So this is based largely on my own experience.
I think the main factor is subtext. Allistic people tend to know, or assume they know, the subtext intended in social interactions, including the consumption of media; frankly they just don't think about it that much. Autistic people have to analyze scenarios to try to logically deduce the intended subtext.
That means when autistic people consume media, they don't really have an assumption of subtext, or at least not a neutral one. As they analyze the scenario to try to deduce it, the obvious motivations reveal themselves. Obviously this ad is trying to convince me to purchase this good or service, obviously this highly biased βnews" is trying to push a narrative unsupported by the raw facts.
It's more difficult to propagandize people who scrutinize the propaganda. There is no subconscious assumption of neutrality, we know everyone is trying to push some agenda, subconsciously or otherwise, and in the process of masking we learn to try to figure out what that agenda is.
The same training we use to not seem like robots and make friends, also trains the ability to detect other unspoken intentions. We analyzin' err'ything out here.
It also probably doesn't hurt that a lot of the common mustering points in propaganda revolve around fitting in and conforming to (allegedly) implicit normal social norms. That seems to be an unusually poor motivator among those on, and especially to one end of, the 'spectrum'.
Well said, I agree with all that as well, and would also add that Autistic people are... generally more poorly motivated by appeals to conformity... because if an Autistic person has knowledge of how social / cultural standards factually differ throughout time and space and different communities... they just know that to a large degree, all social norms are arbitrary, and vary greatly.
Thats not to say that they do not have understanable basis in a specific area or group's culture... but it just is the case that 'conformity' means different things to different people, that there literally is no universal and objective way to 'be normal'.