Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
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I am for electrification but I just can't get behind electric buses.
My city made some study last year and the best way forward in terms of public transport is expansion of trolley bus network. With batteries and constant use it just doesn't make much economic sense. If you can build the wiring it is much better in long run. You don't have to have 100% coverage, 70+% is enough for partial battery powered trolley bus, then it starts to be economically feasible in the operating cost sense.
Also they will need to build some kind of metro system - probably as an extension of commuter trains.
Isn't a trolley bus just an electric bus with a "antenna" on top to charge its battery from an overhead cable?
Ours (Canberra's) has no battery, it's only powered by the pantograph. It'll get a battery for where it runs through the parliamentary triangle when it eventually reaches the parliamentary triangle
Most of the ones run here don't have batteries. It is running on wires only - with battery trolley bus you need bit different wires so you can put the "antenna" up and down when needed. And since the network was built in 50s it didn't made sense to buy the partial ones until few years ago.
Keeping that in mind: would a good solution not be to have electric busses with batteries, which also have the umbilicle on a spring loaded or electronically actuated system to raise it to connect to the wires? This would allow said wires which would normally connect a trolley system to be placed along main strips while still allowed busses to travel along lesser used streets. The mobility of busses with the power system of trolleys to ensure they don't have to stop to recharge or refuel, they can just connect on the main strip and keep their battery banks full.
I'd even say with something like this a supercapacitor bank to quickly charge those to 100% on connection then allow those to charge the batteries. This would help to reduce charge cycles on the battery and help to keep the batteries in a constant charge or constant discharge state instead of having every bump in the road disconnect the batteries from the grid.
Pantograph
Trains. Believe it or not. Boston still uses deisel commuter trains, including one “deisel under the wire” on the electrified Amtrak line. Everyone has been pushing to electrify but it’s expensive. Their solution is battery trains. They can run them on battery now, while tAking power from catenary as it’s built. Seems like a huge waste of money, but I guess you have to transition somehow
Yes, and they're much cheaper and last longer, since they don't need big batteries
BEV busses need much larger batteries, while trolley busses can get away with a very small battery
Yeah..... We kinda solved this problem in the late 1800's. Overhead electric or powered third rail (depending on need) is really peak public transportation when it comes to cost and efficiency over time.
People always harp on the infrastructure cost when it comes to rail, but turn a complete blind eye on extreme cost of things like road maintenance and need for lane widening caused by everyone driving huge ass half filled busses everywhere.
Road maintenance is one of the largest expenses for most states in the US, and it's largely so much worse than other countries because our dependency on the trucking industry. We're all basically constantly subsidizing the trucking industry at great cost instead of funding adequate public rail.
Toronto has overhead electric trolleys. They got rid of the buses, but only because GM refused to make them. The fleet of overhead electric buses were 50 years old, they never broke.
The old GM New Look buses were incredibly reliable. We didn't get rid of ours until about 20 years ago after decades of service.
But I get the appeal of the ebus it just sounds cheaper. One city I won't name started to build trolley bus network again after they got rid of it in 70's (because of metro construction and expansion of trams), but they just doing it bit idiotically by wanting to have like 30% of it on wires and rest run on batteries.
Why? Because the infrastructure is just more expensive upfront.
Will it work? Nobody knows, people that are building it lobby to get it up to at least 50/50 then it is maybe just feasible.
I think that roads and buses have place in the transportation but you just need more options not just that.
I was excited when we started getting electric buses here, then I learnt we used to have trolley buses until the mid 70s. At least we got a tram line in 2021 so that's great
So you're saying the better alternative to electric busses is...electric busses