What maker?
this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2025
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Understand that I'm from a different viewpoint as a Norwegian, but saw a diesel bus a few months back, and it was a weird blast from the past to see.
My only complaint as a user (without considering any of the economics, or environmental impact) is that there has definitely been a bit of an adjustment period for the drivers - I've seen a few standing passengers go flying when the buses accelerate from zero like go-karts.
That was true of old trolley buses.
and when the driver doesn't use the regen braking properly, resulting in a very jerky ride
Does anyone feel like electric buses are a type of green washing?
I like EVs, but do they make sense for something that needs to be on the road all day? Is replacing a couple hundred diesel buses bringing thousands around a day really what should be getting targeted?
Every little helps and all, but doesn't seem like it should be considered a bug deal.
As long as they can last all day then charge enough overnight I think they are a big improvement. Air and noise pollution sucks with diesel.
My fear is in extreme cold places, where EVs tend to have issues.
It's a somewhat low hanging fruit. And every little bit counts
We should not make perfect the enemy of good
Diesel buses pollute badly. Both emissions and noise.
They are just better vehicles, both in terms of local pollution, and in terms of propulsion, even if it is green washing.
and noise
Ah good point, I don't live next to a bus stop
Yeah, anything that does a lot of city driving and a lot of stop start is much better suited to electric than diesel. At my work - collecting waste - I drive an electric iveco tipper. Only had it a few weeks but already it's so much better than the nasty old diesel I had before.
We had a scam in our city where our electric buses were being charged by Diesel Generators.
Which in general is a more efficient way to use the diesel than if it was in an engine. However I'm not sure in this case, as I don't know how efficient a generator would be compared to how ridiculously efficient a modern engine is. But electric engines outclass anything out there when it comes using energy.
Given the fact that India is the most polluted country in every single metric and one of the most corrupt, doesn’t make me think the generators they used were at all efficient lol.
if you rip out an engene from a car, then you can operate it at its most efficient rpm all the time, instead of when you happen to cross the right rpm on the right gear. So an engine powering a generator can almost always be more efficient than in a car.
This is not taking the losses in the electrical system when using the generated power in a moter to make the car move. But in a lot of cases, you still come out ahead
The electrical losses are way less than the resistances of a mechanical drivetrain. It's around 10-25% lower apparently.
To address the trolley bus comments - yes, they are better than battery buses, but my city already has a tram network and the bus network covers too much territory to justify putting trolley cables.
I hate to say it, but trolley cables are ugly, at least where I've seen them. It makes the streets look like old times, when each building or home had a dedicated cable going to it from a pole.
I know it's better than batteries, but is there no other way?
Oh man, but look how much more efficient they are: You have a large, high energy network to draw from when climbing very hard hills and full of passengers.
So the bus electric motor only has to pull itself, the chassis, and the passengers up the hills, instead of all the above plus a several thousand pound battery, whose weight does not vary with state of charge.
My point is, I know you're aware they're better, but they're so much better to where it blasts appearance out of the question for me and others who understand the system.
There is - the electric rail. It can only be used with rail transportation, but allows to transfer power without any overhead cables.
As per buses, the only thing one can imagine is wireless power transfer from under the road, but that comes with an extreme power loss.
The best electric busses have electric lines overhead, so you don't need big batteries.
Then you need to cable all the roads of bits networks. That seems expensive. Incidentally the tram line my city is building will be battery powered for part of its route, as they're not allowed to string pantograph wires in one area. It's mostly on wires
It’s never enough for you people.
People love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They oppose incremental progress and preserve the status quo as a result.
It's not about being enough. Battery powered busses are very expensive and baterries need replacement and maintenance. Trolley buses are a cheaper investment in the long term. So it's frustrating when new projects choose baterry buses instead of trolley buses. It always feels like corruption to me.
Trolley are better in a lot of cases, but not in all of the cases.
Everything converges into either crabs or trains.
Trolley busses are also much better for steep inclines!
A lot less versatile and a lot more disruptive to the community.
Not entirely against them but I dont have them a the gold standard.
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Boston had newish hybrid deisel trolleys until 2023, when they replaced with battery electric buses.
They claimed the catenary was too expensive to maintain, especially with roadwork. Meanwhile the battery electric buses are completely self-contained, independent, and there are multiple manufacturers.
I’m sure it didn’t help that they were over complicated. This was a new transit line where everyone wanted a subway, but it was too complicated. They needed more capacity than a bus, able to maneuver tight corners, electric to go through tunnels, and unconstrained in traffic. They created Frankenstein monster and called it “bus rapid transit”. Partly dedicated roadway, partly in traffic. Partly above ground, partly below ground. Partly deisel, partly trolley. Bigger than buses but articulated to fit through narrow streets
I am for electrification but I just can't get behind electric buses.
My city made some study last year and the best way forward in terms of public transport is expansion of trolley bus network. With batteries and constant use it just doesn't make much economic sense. If you can build the wiring it is much better in long run. You don't have to have 100% coverage, 70+% is enough for partial battery powered trolley bus, then it starts to be economically feasible in the operating cost sense.
Also they will need to build some kind of metro system - probably as an extension of commuter trains.
Isn't a trolley bus just an electric bus with a "antenna" on top to charge its battery from an overhead cable?
Ours (Canberra's) has no battery, it's only powered by the pantograph. It'll get a battery for where it runs through the parliamentary triangle when it eventually reaches the parliamentary triangle
Most of the ones run here don't have batteries. It is running on wires only - with battery trolley bus you need bit different wires so you can put the "antenna" up and down when needed. And since the network was built in 50s it didn't made sense to buy the partial ones until few years ago.
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Yeah..... We kinda solved this problem in the late 1800's. Overhead electric or powered third rail (depending on need) is really peak public transportation when it comes to cost and efficiency over time.
People always harp on the infrastructure cost when it comes to rail, but turn a complete blind eye on extreme cost of things like road maintenance and need for lane widening caused by everyone driving huge ass half filled busses everywhere.
Road maintenance is one of the largest expenses for most states in the US, and it's largely so much worse than other countries because our dependency on the trucking industry. We're all basically constantly subsidizing the trucking industry at great cost instead of funding adequate public rail.
Toronto has overhead electric trolleys. They got rid of the buses, but only because GM refused to make them. The fleet of overhead electric buses were 50 years old, they never broke.
The old GM New Look buses were incredibly reliable. We didn't get rid of ours until about 20 years ago after decades of service.
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I was excited when we started getting electric buses here, then I learnt we used to have trolley buses until the mid 70s. At least we got a tram line in 2021 so that's great
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My city also has been rolling out electric buses the last few years and they ride so much like their gas counterpart that I wouldn't be able to tell which is which without the design/colour scheme they chose to tell you which is which.
We have nearly all electric buses here in Oslo now, and whenever I wind up on a diesel bus I think I'm going to get hearing damage
Electric buses are far from silent, but WOW the amount of noise and stink we've just been tolerating with fossil fuels is insane. Even absent climate change, that'd be worth switching to electric vehicles.
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My city is also playing with electric buses buying different brand and models. One Chinese brand they have drives me crazy because it rings a bell as it moves. It's louder and more annoying than the gas buses.
I wish my city was running the electric buses at night. Without the noise of other traffic to help mask it, the gas ones sound like explosions as they drive by at 3a. Unfortunately the bus company said it's cheaper to charge them at night when electricity costs the least.
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