this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Friendly reminder: when commenting about a news event, especially something that just happened, please provide a source of some kind. While ideally this would be on nitter or archived, any source is preferable to none at all given.

If you have evidence of Israeli crimes and atrocities that you wish to preserve, there is a thread here in which to do so.


Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:

UNRWA daily-ish reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.

English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news (and has automated posting when the person running it goes to sleep).
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis.

English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.

Various sources that are covering the Ukraine conflict are also covering the one in Palestine, like Rybar.


The Country of the Week is still Palestine, though we will switch next week to a new country.


Here is the map of the Ukraine conflict, courtesy of Wikipedia.

The weekly (biweekly?) update is here.

Links and Stuff


The bulletins site is down.

Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists

Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Add to the above list if you can.


Resources For Understanding The War


Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful.

Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.

Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.

Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.

On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.


Telegram Channels

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

Pro-Russian

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.

https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.

https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.

https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.

https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.

https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.

https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.

https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine

Almost every Western media outlet.

https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.

https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


Last week's discussion post.


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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

We've talked about second and third order effects on the west of Israel being liberated previously.

What about second and third order effects on Jewish people and Jewish thought?

What happens to the beliefs of the average Jewish peoples? What happens to the beliefs of the orthodox?

[–] MemesAreTheory@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We can acknowledge that Israel is a fascist Settler-Colonial project, but I don't think this bodes well for the Jewish people at large either. The rise of reactionary thinking and explicitly neo-nazi parties across the West (how does all this fascism keep getting into my neoliberal 'democracy'? It is a mystery) does not seem great for us Jews should we be forced back into diaspora.

That's why while I'm in favor of Palestinian liberation and Anti-zionist, I do hope for a single state pluralistic solution at the end of this. I just don't even begin to imagine how that comes to be when everyone in the region are rabid ethnic/religious extremists. How does disarmament happen? How do the forces of Reaction actually lose their standing, even after the antagonistic relationship is lifted? There's inertia there that won't evaporate overnight. The hatred of Jews, falsely though understandably conflated with Israel, won't simply end. The hatred and fear and white supremacy Israelis and Settlers exhibit won't just peter out. We can't just turn the dial back to 1800 and have Jews and Arabs living peacefully under Ottoman rule together (put your erection away Erdogan).

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Right right but this is all stuff that happens in the minds of western people as a reaction to jews, not in the minds of jews themselves. We can already forsee what kind of anti-jewish sentiment will sky rocket as a result of millions of jewish people leaving a new Palestine.

What I'm interested in thinking about is what happens in the minds of the millions of Jews who are suddenly without Israel. Whether they go on to see it as a mistake, or whether they go on to double down on a neo-zionism where they pursue getting it back.

[–] MemesAreTheory@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I suspect both. It's not as though there aren't prominent Jewish Anti-zionist projects and organizations, ranging from cool to problematic. Will people see the error of their ways and admit their wrong-doing? Some, maybe, but their reasons may be mixed in that regard. Almost certainly we'll see the equivalent of Israeli Gusanos, or hyper-nationalist diaspora like Ukraine, too. We know which of these parties are going to be well funded and accommodated by Empire.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

Hmmm but oppressed groups around the world otherwise tend to lean left as a result of activist bases that advocate for them being on the left. More than other people at an equal income level who aren't I mean.

My thinking here is that generally speaking if there's a significant anti-jewish reaction then the jewish diaspora that isn't virulently zionist would all end up on the left and radicalising as the conditions would affect them and the most prominent activists in their favour at that point would become leftists opposing the reaction against them.

[–] Dessa@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What do "second and third order" mean?

[–] AbbysMuscles@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

I think second and third dominoes to fall, so to speak. Extrapolating effects of this crisis beyond the immediate ("Gaza is ethnically cleaned / Israel is destroyed" or something, what happens as a result of that? And a result of that?)

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Disclaimer: I'm not Jewish but here's my guess.

It depends on what's the foundation of their Jewishness. I think they'll be a massive crisis in secular Jews while religious observant Jews won't be as affected since Israel fails the basic requirement of being established by the Messiah as prophesied in the Torah. There are definitely orthodox Zionists, but most don't see this Israel as the Israel.

Most likely, there will be a mass exodus of Israelis once Palestine is establish, with most going to the US or Russia. I predict this diaspora will be thoroughly reactionary on par with Cuban and Vietnamese gusanos since they either have the financial means (so labor aristocrat/petty bourgeois background) or are completely invested in the former settler-colonial project. The portion of Israeli society who either don't want to or can't emigrate will be less reactionary than present Israeli society by virtue of the reactionary scum no longer existing, but this would be subject to change depending on how they get treated by the now-liberated Palestinians. In the US anyways, the Jewish population tends to be pretty progressive (outside the question of Israel), so there will be a political clash between progressive Jewish Americans and reactionary Jewish gusanos.

The doomer part of me predicts a huge wave of pogroms that will be unleashed once Israel falls. And based on how social media and mass media works, the pogroms will inspire more pogroms like a wildfire. There could legitimately be a "Year of the Pogrom." And I don't know how this would affect their politics. I think the deciding factor is to what extent the state let it happen. If the state is apathetic or complicit, their politics will shift left, but if the state is against the pogroms, even nominally so, their politics will shift right.