this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
111 points (98.3% liked)

games

20457 readers
2 users here now

Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.

Rules

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 54 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Accessibility options are the same as the KKK, apparently

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

freeze-gamer are something else. No clue where that analogy is going

[–] NewDark@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think accessibility options are a dog whistle for communism like how he's describing right wing fascist symbolism

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 6 points 11 months ago

Oh okay. Its funny how the damgerous dog whistles for communism are objectively good things that increase how many peoole can enjoy things

[–] NakariLexfortaine@lemm.ee 42 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Can we just go back to when they would admit they're whiny babies with poor impulse control who have to use the easier options because they're there?

I miss those days. It was still bullshit drivel from the spawn of Golgotha, but at least it was upfront.

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 41 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Given the chance, gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game"

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 11 months ago

yeah, no one says Doom is easy because it has an easy mode. You can still brag about beating it on nightmare difficulty.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 37 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if the guy behind dark souls feels some regret spawning an entire generation of G*mers insufferable about difficulty in their games.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I doubt it, the way any fromsoft game is made more or less prevents the addition of an easy mode because everything is carefully balanced and tuned around the current difficulty.

[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's just nonsense, though. Nothing about how the game is made prevents modifying the difficulty. There are mods that make the game easier, there's nothing inherent to any fromsoft game that prevents the addition of an easy mode.

It doesn't matter how it's "balanced" because it's a purely subjective thing, everyone has different abilities and the difficulty can never be perfectly tuned around each individual.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It would screw up a lot of gameplay and make it less rewarding. Take it from Myazaki: "Had we taken that approach, I don’t think the game would have done what it did, because the sense of achievement that players gain from overcoming these hurdles is such a fundamental part of the experience. Turning down difficulty would strip the game of that joy, which, in my eyes, would break the game itself." Your right that it's physically possible, but that defeats the point of the game.

[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It wouldn't screw up the gameplay. It might make it less rewarding, but to who? The people who choose to play on an easier difficulty because of their abilities? Probably not.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (16 children)

If the point of a game is to be difficult and require the player to push outside of their comfort zone and outside of their abilities then what's the point of making it easier. The nice part about not having a difficulty slider is that there's no button to make a fight easier, you need to work to it. Difficulty settings are good for the majority of games, but most from games benefit off forcing you to suffer.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The way that this discussion always comes down to souls games, and they always get brought up in discussions about difficult and acessibility, highlights exactly what you're talking about. You're supposed to lose a whole lot of times before you win, and I think a lot of people who use souls games as an example of an "unfair" game either don't understand that or refuse to understand that.

Plus, like. Summoning. You can summon two players to back you up. You might still die a lot, but if you're able to use the game inputs, the controller, you can most likely beat the game with allies to help you out. I think a lot of folks think souls games are single player. Maybe because that's how streamers play them? Idk.

Also, it's never Sekiro that get's brought up, with Sekiro having no Jolly Cooperation and likely being the most challenging of the Souls games.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (15 replies)
[–] PigPoopBallsDotJPG@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Our goal involves creating a compelling progression path for all of our players. There's a lot of content at launch with even more coming via live service, and we'll continuously adjust our progression mechanics to give players a sense of accomplishment as they explore all of Battlefront 2

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] AlpineSteakHouse@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

There already is an easy mode, it's called leveling up, summoning co-op, and getting better gear.

You're not just asking to make the game easier, you're saying you don't want to spend any time or effort to make that happen. The game is based around spending time and effort to overcome challenges. You do not want to engage with the games core mechanics and that's fine, but don't blame the game. I say this without judgment, just watch a playthrough and then explore the world with cheat engine.

[–] Satanic_Mills@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Imagine being unironically pro-grinding.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

It's the nature of the game. Elden ring has fail-forward levelling. Eith you beat the boss, or you accumulate xp beating your head against the boss until you win. And a lot of it is about building knowledge - learning enemy attack patterns, figuring out which weapons and spells work against which enemies

What i get from most complaints about Souls games is people don't actually want to play souls games. Maybe they think they do, but there seems to e a misunderstanding of what the core gameplay of souls games is and how they work. Like people look at them and think that if it weren't for the inaccessible combat then souls games could be played like Skyrim or Mass Effect. And that's not the case. There are very very few, very austere quests. There's almost no dialogue. Character development, such as there is, is mostly implied.

Combat is pretty much the whole game. If you weren't being seriously challeneged by the enemies you could beat the game in, idk, two hours maybe if you knew where to go? You need to beat two bosses, then one boss, then one boss, then the game is over.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Grinding is when I don't jump from boss to boss, one shotting all of them. The more you force me to explore or learn move patterns, the grinder it is.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Cheat engine to the rescue!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago

I really love that balance in fromsoft games. I love the level of tuning they do to make it feel like a fair challenge versus frustrating and cheap. I also feel that that balance is what gives the games its atmosphere and moment to moment appeal, because it forces you to consider your next step, to consider the risk/reward of going a little further vs turning back etc.

I could see how difficulty modes could cause problems or at least tons of work if they were trying to tune that balance for each difficulty. But, I'm all for accessbility options and modes. If there's an easy or accessibility option thats allows more people to play and enjoy souls without detracting from the standard experience that i enjoy then that sounds good to me.

[–] LeopardShepherd@hexbear.net 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Some Fromsoft fans sound like fucking cult members I swear to god. Like somehow adjusting the difficulty of the game takes away from the purity of the experience or some shit or take away from the satisfaction of progression. Ohh no it'll break the delicate balance oh god.

Buddy, I just wanna vibe with the atmosphere and the scenery sometimes instead of studying the blade or whatever the fuck. It's a video game, relax.

[–] Default_Defect@midwest.social 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can't even talk to my friends about Fromsoft games because of shit like this, no "git gud" isn't a valid response to criticism made in good faith.

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Long time fromsoft player and the git gud bullshit annoys the hell out of me.

It's just elitist, gatekeeping garbage. And this is coming from someone who puts my summon sign down regularly to help people.

For games built with and to some degree around cooperative gameplay, people aren't very good at being helpful to each other in discussions about the games.

That's why I don't participate in any of the online communities and just play with no headset. I'll help people defeat bosses because I have a great time doing it. Outside of that I find the community kinda off putting.

Edited to add - not all folks in the fromsoft communities are elitist, some are actually very kind, but there's just enough weird elitism that I find it to be unpleasant.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (17 children)

Buddy, I just wanna vibe with the atmosphere and the scenery sometimes instead of studying the blade or whatever the fuck. It's a video game, relax.

I think this might be the disconnect. If you just vibed with the scenary there isn't much to the games. You could run through the whole game in a few hours. I think Elden Ring only has four or five required boss fights and afaik every other fight is optional and you could run past all the enemies if you want to.

Much of the game - story, characters, and lore - only comes out if you spend a lot of time getting your ass kicked. Most of the game's background comes from random item drops you'd most likely miss if you got through every fight on the first try. There's a lot of information tied up in how enemies fight - similar enemies from different factions have subtly different equipment and weild different spells. Spell mechanics tie in to story stuff.

The other thing is - it's not easy to make the game easier. Most of the fighting relies on learning enemy movesets and timing. If you make the enemies deal %5 of their normal damage you're still not going to win if you can't figure out when you have openings to land hits. You'll end up being knocked down, staggered, afflicted with statuses, and all the rest of it. You could slow down the attack animations, but they'd look goofy af and become even harder to read.

As much as people scoff these games are carefully crafted works of art. There is wiggle room to make them "easier", but only so much due to the nature of the gameplay.

Additionally, the Elden Ring does have many mechanics - coop especially, to make it much more approachable to players who have struggled with previous entries in the series. I rarely seem people who complain about people who complain about the difficulty of the game discuss or engage with these systems.

Finally, i think there's a serious disconnect in the nature of the dark souls gameplay loop. You're supposed to die a whole lot. Every time you fight thrugh an area you have a chance for drops, you gain xp, and if you're paying attention you're figuring out the best path through the area in hopes of getting further next time. That process - advancing, learning, getting xp, dying, and repeating, is the core gameplay loop. If you don't enjoy that you likely won't have fun with the game.

I think a great deal of bad faith has accumulated - many people complaining about "git gud" don't seem to actually be interested in the game, only using it as a whipping boy for complaints about games gatekeeping difficulty. But dark souls and elden ring are generally the only games in the vast sea of available games discussed in this manner. It's these particular games that are essentially their own niche genre that peopke continue to be mad about over a decade after Dark Souls, despite each subsequent game having more features to make the games accessible to more people.

load more comments (17 replies)
[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Celeste has an assist mode, which uh I simply did not use Idk. I tortured myself with its twitch platforming and felt I overcame it, but I don't even think assist players are losing out on much.

One of the other things Gamers™ need to accept is that the designer's word is not necessarily law. As far back as the Game Genie, people will use whatever they can to experience a game and that's fine honestly. People also want different things from games. It's like the author is dead.

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Just FYI, the "author is dead" thing is about interpreting a text directly according to what is actually there, without concerning yourself with what the "Author" may or may not have intended. When you talk about altering a text, by example, modding it or using a Game Genie, this is actually something quite different, because you are actually creating a new text that would then require different interpretations from the reader

barthes-shining barthes-cool

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I selected the Game Genie because it's not capable of adding stuff and it takes a lot more codework than normos would do to change the game considerably. But U Rite, modding especially is more like fanfiction, analagously.

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Video games are actually interesting wrt the conception of authorship, because it's even harder to assign a unitary Author to them. Hundreds of people have input on the finished product. Thousands if you count people like QA and beta testers.

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Most g*mers just reduce it to whoever the director is shrug-outta-hecks

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Especially funny in this case because GRRM wrote most of the lore

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] WeedReference420@hexbear.net 21 points 11 months ago
[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Me playing Workers and Resources, which allows you to just turn mechanics on and off mid-game (not all of them): No, I must plan my construction site's logistics perfectly! (also why would I give a shit about how other people play the game?)

(also, why do these hard game lovers not like the same hard games I like :( )

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've tried to get into Workers and Resources like 3 times now but every time I get about halfway through the tutorials before I realize I've just been clicking the buttons it told me to and haven't actually been learning anything. Then I look at how many more tutorials I need to fully comprehend before I can even start playing the game proper, and my brain just kind of shuts down.

[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

I'm not a pro by any means, but I can probably help a little bit if you want. The basics are pretty simple (barring a couple of mechanics absent from the tutorials), mostly made more complex by a lack of a ctrl-z function and how finnicky building/terrain placement is. And certain things aren't explained (like the ratio of production buildings/vehicles, or that most of your buildings are running at under max capacity until "mid game", or that some factory connections don't need forklifts).

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Frank@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago

That's cool.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago (6 children)

This whole thing is a nothingburger with the right cheat codes, but because modern gaming^TM^ can't have cheat codes for some reason, we're stuck with these pointless arguments. It's simple:

  1. Make the game as hard or easy as you want.

  2. Add a million cheat codes that gamers can use to customize how they want their personal game experience to be.

The main difference between god mode cheat code and a no-death option is that there's an understanding that if you enter in cheat codes, the game might go off the rails with sequence breaking or even softlocking, which can be overcome be inputting even more cheat codes like level warping.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 14 points 11 months ago

Under communism, all video games will be required to include an option to launch Gamers in to the sun

[–] Procapra@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

I really wish more games had higher difficulty options, but that doesn't mean I want everyone to suffer the way I do. Accessibility is good!

load more comments
view more: next ›