this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2023
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chapotraphouse

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i go out of my way to experience different cultures and it seems like the immigrant communities in the united states originating from communist countries tend to be some of the chuddiest people imaginable. chinese, russian, cuban, vietnamese. literally every person who i ever talked to that has lived in a communist country and then moved to the united states, or is like second or third generation from that, tends to be incredibly reactionary and anti communist. i feel like i am a more well versed communist when talking to people that lived in a communist country.

its like that everyone that comes to the united states from a communist country forgets the values of marxism, socialism, and communism. i have been too polite to ask what really made these people move to this fucking shithole and if i had to guess they have something severely wrong with them and they want to participate in some small business tyrany and become capitalists. like all these assholes be chasing the dollar and they bring great shame on their own nationality even being here.

i have had much better discussions with people from countries that are still being exploited by capitalists since they already have an understanding of what colonialism and capitalism even is and they arent here to try to become small business owners or worse. people from puerto rico dont got the brain worms that cuban expats do for example.

and i should mention, they all state, they love their country but they blame everything bad with their country on communists. It infuriates me hearing these people, who were born in a nation with socialized healthcare, state controlled industry, basic welfare for citizens, just trash talk the system that make them so successful in the first place and gave them the resources they probably didn't deserve to open up a shitty restaurant selling borscht. they would know exactly why these social programs cant meet demand if they just took the blindfold off and realized that america, the great fucking satan, is the reason why the global economy is so unequal ITS ALL BECAUSE OF FUCKING AMERICA NOT COMMUNISM YOU STUPID FUCK!

ive been told not to view myself as more communist than others, but i fucking am around these parts with expats who are not communist whatsoever, that makes me more communist than them. if i was to draw a hundred mile radius around myself odds are there probably wouldnt be someone more communist than me. nobody in my life reads theory, every fucking time i tried reaching out with dsa or the bernie shit i have only met shitlibs, i have found no comrades in bipoc communities, the lgbt, religion, or labor. just having someone say to me face to face they are a communist would help me anchor my belief system to something real and not entirely made up and on the internet.

idk, communism is basically what i use to fill my god hole and its fucking hard to find communists irl and its real shitty that people from communist countries arent oftentimes communists. i just want some validation in my belief in communism by someone who is fucking real.

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[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 70 points 2 years ago (4 children)

America caters to everything chuds love and attracts them here.

Think about the flip side, if you lived in a communist country, would you want to leave it to come live in this reactionary hellhole?

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 60 points 2 years ago (2 children)

if you lived in a communist country, would you want to leave it to come live in this reactionary hellhole

When a lot of immigrants from Cuba, Vietnam, and China came over, the US was around 30-40% of the WORLD's GDP. These three countries' lifespans were literally a full decade lower than America's. The infrastructure and technology was easily many many decades behind

Not to mention a normal job in the US at the time could afford you a house and lifestyle that even the wealthiest of those countries would dream of

I mean yea there's a fuck load of South Vietnam immigrants but this argument is missing a lot of historical analysis

[–] SimulatedLiberalism@hexbear.net 35 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

A lot of Westerners who think the US is bad (materially) literally have no idea what China in the 1990s looked like.

[–] DADDYCHILL@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

in fairness i dont know what the us looked like in the 90s either.

[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Literally the same, the US hasnt changed at all for normal people

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[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 69 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

My Chinese parents immigrated not to US but to Canada

My mom's family got their entire business (bunch of merchant shops on the street of a rural town) and large property taken away from the communists

She's pretty anti-China and a little bigoted but hilariously enough, she's also anti-Canada/US and anti-cracker lol

My dad just sold t-shirts on a wagon on the streets and moved to Canada because he blew his entire life savings in his 20s travelling the entire world and wanted to live in a foreign country

He's pretty pro-China *now* because of the progress and less bigoted than my mom, but also less bigoted towards white people lol

One thing you have to remember though is that Cuba and Vietnam + China in the past were incredibly poor. Like genuinely some of the poorest and worst places you can live in on this planet. Most people are not politically literate and so of course will judge their home country based on what they've seen and experienced compared to the West rather than apply historical materialism to their opinions

[–] meth_dragon@hexbear.net 36 points 2 years ago

lmao my rich farmer great grandmother was kulak enough to have divided up their land between all the children and claimed they were all smallholders so nothing got redistributed

all their kids had joined the pla though, so it might have just been benefits for service

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[–] buh@hexbear.net 59 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

One factor is that people who have the means to move to a different country have some amount of privilege (specifically money or connections) relative to the average person in their home country, even if it’s not necessarily oligarch levels of wealth

That is to say the people who are like “I came here with nothing but $10 in my pocket and created a life for myself with hard work and immigrant grindset!” might be telling the truth about arriving with such meager wealth, but are conveniently leaving out that they somehow were able to afford the thousands of dollars it costs to complete the immigration process (over a years worth of full time work in some countries), and likely have a sponsor in their destination country they could rely on for food and shelter while starting out

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[–] cynetri@midwest.social 47 points 2 years ago (2 children)

what i do know is people that left countries during/after a revolution, for example cubans moving to florida, is because many of them were wealthy and fled to preserve their fortune/lives in some cases. as to why they do it now, i'm not too sure but i suspect a lot of it has to do with the idolization that some people in socialist countries tend to have with capitalist ones - michael parenti's blackshirts and reds has a good write-up about the latter in chapter 7. that, and the ones who have the means to leave are also probably wealthy and want to gain more wealth

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[–] pudcollar@lemmy.ml 47 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There's the matter of them having enough means to make it to the US, and in addition to that, they're the ones who picked the US out of anywhere in the world as where they wanted to go. It'd be like a westerner going to live in a communist country, they would not be a typical westerner.

[–] pumpchilienthusiast@hexbear.net 41 points 2 years ago (1 children)

the us only allows chuds to immigrate

[–] stigsbandit34z@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago

Grouping communists (party associated with powerless laborers btw) with terrorists

You’ve gotta think that this low-effort propaganda is losing its steam but all the evidence points to the contrary

[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 39 points 2 years ago (5 children)

My conclusion is that just because you lived in a socialist country doesnt mean youre smart or understand socialism or geopolitics. Im friends with a lot of Venezuelans none of them know what the sanctions on their country entail. I dont believe Maduro is perfect either but it sure is a one sided argument on their end. One of them is a full blown pro-usa boomer style chud. They are stupid shitheads when the socialist take over and they continue to be after the fact. Theres no magical socialism button that makes people less stupid.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 42 points 2 years ago (4 children)

My conclusion is that just because you lived in a socialist country doesnt mean youre smart or understand socialism or geopolitics.

Just because you lived in a Communist revolutionary government, doesn't mean you ever got to experience the benefit of communal equality.

Remember, the vast majority of people in the countries that had revolutions were made up of the rural poor. When a revolution succeeds, it doesn't happen everywhere at once.

Reactionary forces and a host of their allies will carve toe holds and propagandize to the population under their control . It takes damn near a generation just for a revolutionary government to stabilize and that's if they aren't still fighting off fascist.

This is inherent to any revolution, not just socialism or communism. However, the problem is more pronounced with communism as the infrastructure requirements for command economics. This is typically even further exacerbated by the previous government, who usually try and punish the general public by destroying key infrastructure on the retreat, usually attempting to lay the blame on revolutionaries.

It's perfectly understandable why a person who fled any kind of revolution would hate the revolution. In their memory of the status quo things were bad, but they still had a home, a family, a community. We are beings made of memories of our past experiences, thus it is easier to to glorify what we know moreso than what we could know.

Revolution is hard. If it happens in a western nation people on both sides of the divide will loose homes, families, and communities. And if history has anything to tell us, there is a slim to zero percent chance that any of us would would ever live to see the transition of revolutionary government to post scarcity communism.

The fact that this is even question proves how disassociated the modern vanguard is from the proletariat in under developed countries. It basically amounts to victim blaming. "Why didn't you stay and fight for revolution, didn't you understand theory"? Well embodied theory is kinda hard to learn when you're starving, or constantly being shot at by people you don't know, for reasons you don't know.

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

yeah you don't do a revolution and suddenly all the problems go away. That's step one

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[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

People talk out of their ass all the time about everything. Living under a certain government does not make one an expert on that government any more than watching an MLB game makes one an expert on baseball. Tons of people who don't know shit about either will loudly share their opinions and throw a fit if you disagree.

Thr question isn't "have they seen it firsthand;" it's "do they understand the events around them and the associated context"?

[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (3 children)

plenty of people now live under capitalism and could not explain capitalism if they tried

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[–] kristina@hexbear.net 37 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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[–] PolPotPie@hexbear.net 37 points 2 years ago (1 children)

i figured the us vetted communist-country immigrants and picked the most rabid anticommunists

[–] windowlicker@hexbear.net 30 points 2 years ago (1 children)

they moved for a reason. usually, its because they're reactionaries in their home country but (thankfully) cannot spread their reactionary beliefs there, so they come to the reactionary capital of the world, america.

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[–] flan@hexbear.net 29 points 2 years ago

selection bias?

[–] Sinister@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago (3 children)

my ex emigrated from Guangdong about 5 years ago, he wasn't a chud cuz he got that socialist education.

[–] DADDYCHILL@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

more like guanggone amirite?

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[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

why do the hottest water particles evaporate off first

the ones that leave and go to the US are going to be the most pro US before they left

[–] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Being in Florida my main exposure to this is Miami Cubans. But it’s pretty obvious why they’re all chuds, they’re the children of the rich people who fled when the communists rightfully took all their shit.

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[–] axont@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I live in an area with a lot of Vietnamese folks, and they are rabid anti-communists. Some of them in my neighborhood will fly the old South Vietnamese flag. One time I was eating at a restaurant one of them owns. An elderly guy walks in with a Vietnam veteran hat. The owner of the restaurant, an elderly lady, comes out and kisses the guy on the cheek and hugs him. Gives him a free meal and it was like a huge event.

It's creepy and weird. A lot of them are Catholic too which makes it even weirder.

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[–] FloridaBoi@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

My mom knew someone who fled Peru during the 1968 left wing coup to Francoist Spain

[–] Utter_Karate@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

Part of it is of course that the US supports the "egg monopoly in all of China" sort of people above all else, and those people for real hate communists because they have lost things to communism. I mean, fuck 'em, I'm glad they lost those things, but there's no mystery behind why they are chuds. I also assume there is an element of drilling refugees from communist countries in what to say, much like how DPRK refugees always seem to have the most amazing stories of cruelty to tell that never really make too much sense. I wonder how many of them would secretly like to go back if given the chance. Obviously not the actual gusanos, but the people who were just fleeing the violent effects of revolution/sanctions/intervention. They will likely be spouting the same lines, because it is the obvious path to asylum/citizenship, but how many of them would actually prefer going back?

[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

This is a good thread

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago
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