this post was submitted on 21 May 2025
310 points (97.3% liked)

Europe

5949 readers
1280 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org

founded 11 months ago
MODERATORS
 

National broadcasters for Spain and Belgium have now complained to the competition’s organisers, the European Broadcasting Union, after Israel won the public vote by a large margin.

RTVE, Spain’s public broadcaster, and VRT, the Flemish broadcasting company, are demanding that organisers investigate the televoting system, which allows voters at home to vote up to 20 times for a small cost charged to each vote by text or phone call.

...

The EBU confirmed that RTVE and VRT had been in contact and said it took the complaints “seriously”.

Martin Green, the director of Eurovision, said: “It is important to emphasise that the voting operation for the Eurovision Song Contest is the most advanced in the world and each country’s result is checked and verified by a huge team of people to exclude any suspicious or irregular voting patterns.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Pnut@lemm.ee 3 points 6 hours ago

As a Canadian I did get into Eurovision at a point. Some of those acts go fuckin hard. However, I could not care less about this bullshit. Make music, not business, and you get good music.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Just make the voting pricier and donate all the proceeds to the UN.

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 17 points 15 hours ago

I got many YouTube ads telling me to vote for her song up to 20 times (ads didn't mention Israel, just name and song)

It's obvious that it has been manipulated as you don't go from #14 to #2 overnight with votes evenly spread around many countries, especially when the song is not a hit

They intentionally chose her, because being a survivor of that terrorist attack, they can push the "see? Hamas bad, they killed 1000 innocent Israelis"

Every year Israel gets millions of votes that don't match the song listening stats

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

near win? i haven't watched in a while but with all the protests i thought they'd get 0 points like UK usually would.

~~did the voting system change or something?~~

edit: nvm i read the article. good job on the broadcasters raising questions.

[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Unrelated, but I like how the ESC supposedly has a better voting system than the US

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 14 hours ago

Honestly, at this point it might actually do the US some good when state governments weren't elected by their own population, but the population of all the other states.

[–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 35 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Politics aside, can someone explain to an American why Israel is in it? Kinda seems weird to have a non-European country in Eurovision.

[–] Ronno@feddit.nl 18 points 16 hours ago

It cannot be explained by putting politics aside. Having Israel be there is in itself a political choice.

[–] patchworkneuron@sopuli.xyz 29 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Israel is a member of the EBU (European Broadcasting Union), which organizes the song contest. This is also why geographically non-European countries like Azerbaijan and Georgia can participate.

[–] glaber@lemm.ee 27 points 22 hours ago

Being very pedantic, small parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan are within the commonly agreed borders of Europe (the Georgian parts that fall on the Terek river basin and the Azeri Quba-Xaçmaz region)

[–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 5 points 22 hours ago

I see, thank you for the explanation!

[–] DJDarren@sopuli.xyz 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

This comment is really nice summation of why Israel are still in the ESC, but Russia were booted.

Tl;dr: Israel's national broadcaster is still (kinda) independent, so the European Broadcasting Union are keen to protect that. Russia's national broadcaster has been entirely subsumed by Putin's government, so no longer fulfills the requirements of EBU membership.

[–] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

That is a lie on part of the ESC, it's been documented and until recently was still up on their website that they booted Russia because it invaded Ukraine. When asked why Israel was allowed to participate in 2024, they came up with this explanation and changed their story re: Russia.

[–] BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world 16 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

Australia is an even a weirder choice.

[–] Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world 14 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Eurovision is huge in Australia. People get up in the middle of the night to watch it. So in 2016, the contest's 60th anniversary, they allowed Australia to compete for funsies.
Everyone agreed they understand Eurovision perfectly so they were allowed to stay.

[–] pulsey@feddit.org 7 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I am just waiting for the day, Australia wins and everybody in Europe has to watch the ESC in the middle of the day

[–] DJDarren@sopuli.xyz 6 points 15 hours ago

Brilliantly for us in actual Europe, they compete under the rule that should they win, the competition will still be hosted here in Europe. They have to pay for it, but we don't have to get up early to watch it.

[–] The_Decryptor@aussie.zone 11 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

We were mistaken as the entry for Austria and nobody wants to admit that mistake

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 4 points 20 hours ago

Yeah one day I ended up playing soccer for the Austrian soccer team because I went through the wrong door and didn't want to let anyone down

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

Same applies to football (soccer), the Israeli teams cannot play against their neighbors for obvious reasons unless it's a World Cup match. Those clowns should make peace.

[–] turtle@lemm.ee 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] bampop@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Confession: I actually watched the ESC this year despite my moral qualms. Sorry.

But it really struck me how fake it has become. The "performances" in the final were just recordings of the ones shown in the qualifying rounds (probably weren't even live then). Words said by performers at the end of the song were chopped off. At the end when they showed clips of the performances with the performers in the "green room" reacting to them, pretty sure these were the same shots they used in the qualifying rounds. No continuous shots connecting the presenters to the performances. Every element of the show compartmentalized and combined using stock shots to fill in the gaps. Doesn't even resemble a live show. I wonder how much of this is required to ensure that nobody says anything about Israel, or shows or wears any unauthorised symbols, and that any undesired crowd noise can be edited (sounded like that happened when Israel phone vote was announced). Fucking weird.

Of course the ludicrously high phone vote for Israel was expected. But what is the deal with Switzerland's entry getting zero phone votes? That was really strange. Maybe the organizers agreed to donate all Switzerland's phone votes to Israel.

Anyway, the whole thing is so fake and fucked up, I won't be watching again. I feel sorry for the performers and the countries who try to contribute something good, it's just wasted on Eurovision.

[–] turtle@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago

My spouse and I watched it last year and even voted for it. I think it was our first year watching it live? Anyway, we were getting ready to do the same this year until I saw the video I linked in the grandparent post, like the day before the event. That woke me up to the fact that it had already been fucked up the year before too, so we decided to skip it.

[–] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 113 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Eject Israel from the EBU, they're not better than Russia at this point.

[–] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 7 points 15 hours ago

They're much worse.

[–] DJDarren@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The trouble is, of course, that the primary sponsor of the competition is Moroccanoil: an Israeli firm.

[–] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 day ago

yeah it's all about that sweet sweet cash. I don't quite understand how such a minor cosmetics company is able to afford such a big sponsorship for that many years. You'd think L'Oreal or similar international brands have this kind of marketing budget.

i thought that the song Israel competed with is good music, the singer is talented, and in a vacuum it deserves being around the top, but the whole backstory of sending a survivor of the music festival attack that initiated the war just makes it unpalatable.

letting them take part in the competition is also a huge additional stress for security, logistics and broadcast, to avoid physical attacks (several were thwarted during the israeli performances), avoid props like palestinian flag (like when the icelandic band brought one in rotterdam), booing (like in malmö where they had to introduce a delay to be able to remove anything from the final signal)... all that trouble must still be worth it.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago

It seems like such an easy call - give anyone who might bring unnecessary political pressure a ‘time out’. Could keep it entirely neutral like that if they wish to appear above the fray.

Would be better than what they did as allowing Israel this year can easily be seen as a very political endorsement.

[–] UnexpectedBehavior@lemmy.world 76 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I was wondering about the result because the politically situation always influences voting behavior for the ESC. Israel is currently not very popular (and for good reason) so I would have expected that they come in last yet they obliterated everyone else in the audience vote (just like they illegally obliterated Gaza). This did not add up and manipulation was the only reasonable explaination

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 48 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I would not go as far that manipulation is the only reasonable explanation. Certainly Israeli lobby groups will have mobilized their people to vote extensively as participation in international events and the image of strong support are crucial for claiming legitimacy. As the article discusses the system of allowing up to 20 votes per number is favoring the ferverous.

There is three considerations from my side that i think need to be cleared:

  1. There is allegations that Israel used targeted ads on social media to encourage people to vote. Imo. this should be banned and lead to disqualification if true, especially as the EBU keeps emphasizing that ESC would be unpolitical. Having a state or state aligned actor push adds for voting is an obvious contradiction. (leaving all the other obvious ones aside for the moment)
  2. It must be laid open, how many "original" votes where cast for each candidate in each country and how many were multiple votes. This mechanism should be tossed out anyways. Someone willing to spend more money does not make his or her vote worth more than anyone elses. There remains the issue of multiple phone numbers per person, but that only gets amplified by allowing 20 votes on each of these phone numbers.
  3. It mus be analyzed if there was direct manipulations and fake votes. If that turns out to be true, that should also be a disqualification and multi year ban for the participating broadcaster. This should be separate from questions of exclusion that should be mandated by the actions of the countries.
[–] You@feddit.org 20 points 1 day ago

To add to your No 1:

I've heard from other people (who don't use a good AdBlocker) that they got shown ads for the Israeli song surrounding videos about Eurovision on YouTube. Someone also mentioned that in the ads he saw the song itself got advertised, it did not explicitly mention that it is a song from Israel. I use UBlockOrigin and therefore did not see these ads myself.

I don't care who does it - I think that blatant advertising should not be allowed. Other countries are already disadvantaged by the comparatively huge costs to partake in the song contest.

[–] KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 8 points 1 day ago

That's how it works in a vote. You have 24 countries. Votes are spread across all of them. It doesn't require more than maybe 10% of the vote for one country to get 12 points. With some mobilisation by stupid Israel-supporters and targetted ads by Netanyahu and his crime gang, it's not that urealistic to get max points, even if the last 90% of potential voters hate the regime.

[–] Lumidaub@feddit.org 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

People who oppose Israel's participation didn't watch and didn't vote. That alone will have had an influence on the result. Even if they did vote, their votes were spread across dozens of other candidates.

Edit: I should've been more precise and said "many people". Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.

[–] goodeye8@fedia.io 24 points 1 day ago (6 children)

People who oppose Israel's participation didn't watch and didn't vote.

Why would people not watch? Do you think Israel has such a huge influence on people that they'd outright ignore watching the show? I would argue that's not a factor because there were people in the arena who booed Israel. They paid money to see it live. I didn't like Israel participating, I still watched it because Eurovision is not about Israel.

Even if they did vote, their votes were spread across dozens of other candidates.

That's a roundabout way of saying you think Israel's song was popular among people. I'm supposed to believe Netherlands, who just had a massive protest about Israel, gave maximum points to Israel? Norway, who is known to be pretty anti-Israel, gave almost max points to Israel? Same with France, UK etc. Countries that have polls showing the majority being against what Israel is doing turn around and give max (or close to max) points to Israel? How? Why?

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›