this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2025
8 points (75.0% liked)

CanadaPolitics

2822 readers
5 users here now

Placeholder for any r/CanadaPolitics refugees

Rules

  1. Keep the original title when submitting an article. You can put your own commentary in the body of the post or in the comment section.

Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage: lemmy.ca

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 10 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] kbal@fedia.io 5 points 2 days ago

After the financial crisis circa 2008 there was a high-profile international debate about which approach was best for banking regulation: Detailed legalistic rules that try to cover every possible situation, or rules that set forth simple principles to make clear the spirit of the law with the understanding that they might not cover everything and may even need to be violated in case of emergency. I'm not sure what Mark Carney had to say about it, but I suppose we can guess.

In other contexts it can be an interesting debate but when it comes to C-2 it seems beside the point. Regardless of which approach is preferred that bill in its most problematic parts lays out clear and simple principles which are themselves ill-considered, unconstitutional, and deeply out of step with the values Canadians expect our government to embody and respect..

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

I'm still concerned about Bill C-2 and the erosion of Canadian Privacy right that we have by default that could be legislated away. Some other parts of it make a lot of sense, but it needs significant revision in the fall before I can get behind it.

I'm not a fan of how "American" the whole bill feels in general. Service providers (which have been clarified by the government to mean virtually any public-facing business) can be more or less compelled or effectively encouraged to surrender our information to the government on premises much weaker than currently. The mechanism is that by volunteering the information (and barring themselves from disclosing it publicly), they are legislatively protected from lawsuits. They can not do that but lose that protection from liability and conversely, risk prosecution if they disobey certain orders in "exigent circumstances". Most firms are not really going to care about their customers as much as their own liability risks.

The standard to obtain this info is also lowered by a lot and the "warrant" is being defined in this act more loosely.

These are all concerns to me because it is much harder to obtain our rights to digital privacy back once we lose them, and every reason in the book has been used by governments across the world to try to erode these. Yes, we should prosecute crimes and creating a "framework" to handover data does make sense to me but there needs to be a lot more transparency in the process, and I'd prefer not to embed a gag order/non-disclosure provision without clear availability of recourse. A lot of things are changing in this bill, so we need more time to look at this one (I'll give C-5 more of a pass since it is actually part of what Carney campaigned on).

[–] cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Really interesting analysis. I hope it pans out. I agree we have little experience with the alien ideas of "Confucianism" and I'm not going to pretend I'm qualified to evaluate whether Mark Carney is or is not in fact "it", but I'm definitely supportive of the idea that overwhelming bureaucracy is crippling in a way that few people in this country ever take the time to acknowledge much less do anything about, and the ones who do occasionally say something about it (typically libertarian-types) aren't ones I would trust to actually remove said bureaucracy at all, as they typically want to do it for completely the wrong reasons. I certainly don't love our mountain of regulations and policies but I struggle to see any other way of protecting ourselves from those within and outside of government who would do us harm. If this "Cabinet rule" as Carney calls it is the answer, I'm onboard and I eagerly await some results. But I still have significant concerns and reservations. I guess time will tell, but I'll continue watching carefully.

[–] CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My concern is a suspicion that a lot of the support for people like Trump, Poilievre, and other populists comes from the fact that 'progressives' don't even acknowledge that the sclerotic ways of modern govt are doing things like driving up the cost of housing. In the third part of this series I'll be talking about this. There's a graph from Naxos polling that I find is really interesting---it seems to show a lot of the people who used to support Poilievre have moved not so much to Carney as to 'undecided'.

Please note, I'm not completely sold on Carney. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now. I'm also of the opinion that if we won't support politicians who at least say the right things, we are never going to get anyone in office that will do a good job.

[–] vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In what world are progressives not the ones talking about the issues with housing and governance? That makes 0 sense.

[–] CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not quite sure what you mean by this comment, but there's lots of talk. But most of seems to me to be deflections from admitting that we need to change zoning rules that keep developers from building new housing. The common refrains are things like "developers won't build affordable housing", "it's because of financialization", "I'm all for more density---just not in this neighbourhood", "I just don't think it's fair for people who already own their own home to pay for the infrastructure needed to build new housing", etc. I've put a lot work into researching this subject for a lot of articles, and when I looked into all of these things I found that they really aren't the problem---it's the nest of legalization that makes the process of home-building super slow and piles a lot of unnecessary costs onto the developers.

Unfortunately, a great many 'progressives' are baby boomers who already own their own homes and they simply don't understand the housing crisis because it doesn't directly affect them.

[–] vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And I would not describe a bunch of boomers as the only progressives. Am I going crazy or the people calling to house the homeless and build affordable housing not the progressive people? Or is that suddenly a strictly liberal thought somehow? Who, if not progressive people, are trying to help homeless people?

[–] CloudwalkingOwl@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

I've never liked the word 'progressive' because it's a classic case of loaded language: a way of speaking that assumes a disputed point in the words used. That's why I put the term in scare quotes whenever I use it. Because of all the loaded language, the self-described 'progressives' I'm talking about (who totally dominate the NDP and Green Parties) dismiss anyone who disagrees with their assumptions out of hand.

I was recently at a rally where Charlie Angus spoke and it was just assumed---totally without any discussion at all---that Bills C-2 and C-5 were evidence that Mark Carney's govt are total and complete sell-outs. That's just like the people I meet who would think they were grooviest, most compassionate, 'progressive' people possible---yet fight like Hell against any changes that would speed up the supply of new housing.

One of the people who spoke at that rally is an NDP Council member. I've talked to him about housing in the past. I asked him why the city's official plan has nothing in it about making sure that there's enough housing for everyone in the city and he flat out refused to consider this. He said it just isn't the city's job to think about housing. He also said that the only solution would be if the federal government paid for enough social housing to get everyone a home. That's flat-out insane as it would cost an astronomical amount of money and there's no way there would ever be enough public support for it. This is what happens if a political movement substitutes aspirations and process for actually getting the job done.

I suppose what I hope Carney will be is something of a Canadian Deng Xiaoping. He was famous for saying "I don't care if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice".

[–] kbal@fedia.io 1 points 2 days ago

Speaking of flashbacks to almost 20 years ago, Paul Krugman used to talk about what he called Flatland and the Zoned Zone. The same forces were at work then, they've just gotten steadily worse and I guess as suburban sprawl took over across the land, almost every place in Canada where it makes any sense to build (and many where it doesn't) got itself to some extent "zoned."

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

I really appreciate this person’s thoughts and feel the article is well written/structured