why celebrate independence day?
it was supposed to be about gaining independence from tyranny.
We're back with kings and tyrants.
this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
439 points (96.0% liked)
No Stupid Questions
42004 readers
1540 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Why feel patriotic for a country that literally stole/claimed what wasn't theirs to being with? Never felt such a thing for this so called "first world".
Whose was it? At what point in history was ownership established and why was it not the previously displaced people's instead? How long does it take to establish ownership, and what means are justified to do so? Who exactly is the United States anyway?
Our country is under MAGA Nazis rule, and that is nothing to celebrate. Independence Day should be a Day of Resistance, until the MAGA Nazis lose their control.
Honestly nationalism for the US has always been kinda gross to me. We've never really had much to be proud of as a nation historically.
Well in that case there probably isn't a single nation ever that should be proud.
Sounds like a great day for a false flag attack to solidify the masses against a perceived threat.
I'm a USAF vet. My ancestors literally fought in the revolutionary war, and signed The Declaration of Independence. I'm going through the motions this year, but I don't feel it at all. I'm pissed that we're multiple stages into a nazi regime. I'm profoundly flabbergasted at how anyone could be for this. How anyone that is for it, can't see that they're going to be the "out" party. Some already are seeing it.
I'm incredibly disappointed that the news has gotten so out of touch that they just rolled over and lapped up the rhetoric. Local news is all sunshine and rainbows while ICE kidnaps people, and a corrupt POtuS breaks the constitution left and right. While he deploys military against its own citizens. While rights are stripped, aided by a corrupt SCOTUS. While the rich get richer off of our backs. While the checks and balances are obliterated.
I was an Army officer and I my people have been here since the mid 1700s. I have service in my family going all the way back to the beginning of this country. I am a member of both the VFW and the American Legion and I have been depressed since November. I really hoped America was better than this. I was wrong. I do not know what I will do for the 4th but it will not be celebrating.
stop “going through the motions,” then? do something?? anything!????
idk tbh anytime i see someone act as surprised as you are at this point it’s someone who believed, strongly, in the noble lies fed to us. i don’t mean to judge you pointedly, but knowing you’re an air force vet… doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in the counterpoint to that opinion.
i came from a family with a lot of military brats so im confident in saying 99% of people who enlist are either doing so out of economic desperation (aka coercion) or they’re dumb enough to believe the shit the recruiters/propoganda/government spew. if i offend… that’s fine. i have respect for the trauma, both physical and mental, that vets have gone through but i think you guys aren’t just cogs in a machine and are morally culpable for what you’re involved in doing. i respect the people on an individual basis, but spit on the org as a whole.
anyway idk not to babble on and on but point being maybe the euros are right when they say none of us have the balls to do what needs to be done. people won’t even say what needs to be said because they fear losing their jobs and careers due to corporate, dystopic surveillance of their every word. it’s the most milquetoast acceptance of literal fascism in history and your comment and the behavior you espouse is exactly why they’re able to do it.
don’t get me wrong, i’m not casting stones. i am not without sin either. i’m sitting here shitposting on the internet instead of marching. i’m also part of the problem; but it’s time we start calling it out instead of getting offended at the notion we are just letting it happen.
people won’t even say what needs to be said because they fear losing their jobs and careers due to corporate, dystopic surveillance of their every word.
in this spirit i’ll be the first to say. fuck ice. i won’t self-police myself for thought crime anymore. the first chance i get to kill an ice agent im taking, and every true fucking patriot should feel the same. it’s time to water the tree of liberty, man.
I see where you're at. I take no offense. I definitely could be doing more. I can't work either, so it isn't like I don't have the time. Physical issues are my only real hold back. My enlistment was fear of being trapped in an abusive home, as well as feeling like high school didn't offer enough of an education to prepare me. We both have the luxury of doing what we're doing.
However, I offer a few counter points.
What does killing 1 ICE "officer" accomplish? How does that affect change in the right direction? Does this cause others to do the same and follow suit?
We need more that I don't think we're at the point of accomplishing yet. We need a full on civil war. One that I'm not sure how we get to kick off, all at the same time, all across the nation, without it fizzling out quickly.
The problem then comes in how to coordinate that. How do we communicate, nation wide, in a way that is not vulnerable to monitoring and disruption by the very place we're trying to change? How do we coordinate arming and supplies? How do we coordinate movements and operations?
We can't stop at just POtuS either. 99% of it needs to go. Dem leadership has been largely sitting on the bloody nubs that they try to "reach across the aisle" with. SCOTUS and most all other courts are compromised. Plus the billionaires, the behind the scenes assholes, and even state and local governments. It all needs a clean sweep.
We have too comfortable of a life. We're too complacent. We were too far removed from the fascism that spilled over in Europe. We were too padded. It didn't really hit us, in either world war, back here. Our troops came back home and went back to regular life as usual. We had a civil war, but we didn't punish any of the perpetrators. That led us right back where we're at. At the time though, you could survive on your own. Support a family off of the land. There wasn't much of an infrastructure. There was no pain to be felt by the general populace (loss of life aside).
I do think we'll get to full on armed conflict. I feel as though mid terms will be the kicker. I just don't know if armed conflict is where we're at yet. Not that I don't think we should be. It's that the general populace is too comfortable. We, apparently, need our lives to hurt more. To be affected more. Is it sad? Absolutely. Is it very much against everything that the founding fathers envisioned, especially when drafting up the 2nd? Absolutely. They would be completely disgusted with all of us. Myself included.
I agree with most everything you said here, it's a good analysis. Sorry for being a bit of a reactionary this morning. Not sure why I was on such a shit-slinging vibe earlier but I'm willing to own up to it.
What does killing 1 ICE “officer” accomplish? How does that affect change in the right direction? Does this cause others to do the same and follow suit?
We need more that I don’t think we’re at the point of accomplishing yet. We need a full on civil war. One that I’m not sure how we get to kick off, all at the same time, all across the nation, without it fizzling out quickly.
I would see a civil war, or something like it, as the first "real," and rational opportunity for an individual to kill an ICE agent. In my mind, doing so as a sort of lonewolf is so absurdly stupid as to not be considerably but I understand that's probably not a reasonable take these days anymore when it comes to discourse in the commons. Therein is the sociopolitical paradox you mentioned about what actually sparks the powderkeg. In short, I think we're saying about the same thing in principle, I'm just an edgelord before noon I guess lmao.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, I always appreciate discourse. Meet all sorts of cool people on lemmy. Hope life has more in store for you, for all of us. Good luck!
Absolutely no shade my friend. I am absolutely as pissed off as you are. I really wish it would make a difference. Many of us do. It just isn't quite there yet. The stew is close, we just need the vegetables to get ready.
I love the discourse as well. We don't get a feel for everyone's feelings towards things when we don't. Others may even bring up things we hadn't thought about, or an angle we didn't see.
Good luck to you as well!
I find the bit about believing the lies we're fed as somewhat naive. We're all on a journey, and everyone starts in a different place, with unique foundations.
My current opinions vary wildly from those held 20 years ago. Change is a good thing, and I think it should be expected as the norm.
Canadian here and we celebrated the fuck out of our national holiday which just passed. We have a stronger feeling of solidarity than we've felt in a long time. Despite the threats of annexation and shifting tariffs, we are feeling more hopeful than we have in many years, possibly because we're making new friends in the global sandbox and coming into our own power now instead of constantly kowtowing to the USA in all matters.
Except a few folks in Alberta who would love to be part of the modern Nazi regime. Fuck them, tho.
Personally, I'm not feeling that same vibe. I think the solidarity against the US is a very good thing, but the sheer amount of ways Canada is just "America Light" is very depressing. Its to the point that our flag has been so sullied by absolutely shit tier movements in the last 5 years that I can't stand to see it anymore.
Every time I see a private flag pole, bumper stickers or anything kind of patriotic merch my knee jerk reaction is "I bet this dude's a fuckwad." I know that I'm painting with a huge and shitty brush but I just can't even fight against it anymore. I know it's wrong. I just don't care, and that makes me sad.
I live comfortably here, but given even a minutely convenient reason to emigrate I think I'd take it.
Canada is a car infested, anti-human shit hole just like America. To paraphrase Steve Harris of Iron Maiden a bit "We oil the jaws of the ~~war~~ capitalist machine and feed it with our ~~babies~~ immigrants."
I've felt like that for years, too. But Canadians boycotting en masses, then soundly rejecting mini-Trump has given me hope. Since then, our leader has been reaching out to other countries to form new relationships and deals. We just signed a rare earth minerals deal with Greenland, of all places.
Yes, Canada has been hamstrung by US demands but the vice-grip they've had over us has deteriorated. This wouldn't have happened if not every single other country in the world was going through the same thing. So it feels a bit like a rebirth to me, with the possibility of finally being able to come into our own as a nation.
Not American. But I don't even know when my country's national day is. I know there's one because they always do a military parade with the king and always something goes wrong, and we laugh about it. But I can even tell what day it is until I see it on the news.
You have a good king/gov if they arent bashing swallow patriotism into your skull in school... where are you from?
Spain.
King is a moron, but happily he is just politically powerless.
I mean, there is that kind of nationalism patriots here. We have our share of people talking about "bringing back the spanish empire" or "bring back Franco". And they surely obsess about national day. I just don't care.
Con todo el enriedo con separatistas qué hay en España hubiera esperado un mayor empuje nacionalista en las escuelas... bien por españa. Acá en Argentina es así, nacionalismo ciego y revisionismo en las escuelas, pero revisionismo selectivo. Un maldito asco.
Traer de vuelta a Franco? Es joda? Pensé que era re contra taboo. Acá a veces se dice "con videla estábamos mejor" pero es más en chiste para decir que hay que mandar todo a la mierda... (espero)
Igual, hagan lo que quieran, yo les tengo un amor ciego a ustedes..
#ConLaCasaDeAustriaEstabamosMejor
Algo ha habido pero no tanto como pudieras imaginar. También yo siempre he hecho oidos sordos, así que igual hay más de lo que yo he visto.
Pero lo de Franco, por desgracia sí, mucha gente dice la frase típica "con Franco estábamos mejor". Algunos lo dicen enserio, otros para molestar. Pero es preocupante. Sobre todo cuando se escucha entre los más jóvenes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but HOW THE FUCK could I EVER be proud of this country anymore??? We've done nothing to deserve respect or patriotism.
load more comments
(4 replies)
I'm feeling patriotic enough to burn US flags and I'm not even from the US!
Lot of people I know are staying home, Generally on the 4th, for the last decade trumpers get black out drunk and end up killing people with their boats and gaint trucks.
I'm not celebrating patriotism. I'm celebrating a 3 day weekend.
Being a Brit, for years I've jokingly referred to the 4th of July as 'Rebellion Day' to my USian friends. Not sure I'm joking any more, just hopeful. Go on. Rebel!
Yep. Staying home, donating, or protesting if something’s going on. It’s just a long weekend to me now. No flag flying at this home for sure… unless it’s a No Kings flag.
There's nothing left to be proud of. Just vague platitudes about freedom and performative military worship that have been socially beaten into people since 2001. I have no faith remaining in my fellow countrymen. I am unable to clearly see a future for myself living here as I am now. What is left to be patriotic about?
All the true patriots are dead. They were buried long ago. Modern patriotism is a marketing gimmick. I refuse to be a party to it.
I've never celebrated the 4th of July because I've been patriotic, I've done it because it's fun. When I stopped believing in God I didn't stop celebrating Christmas. In the same way Christmas is about gifts and seeing family, the 4th of July is about fireworks and seeing friends.
I'm not doing anything for the forth. Fuck America, I am not celebrating my country, because my country wants me dead. Fuck em.
FYI the Women's March org is hosting "Free America" protests for the July 4th weekend. See the Women's March site here. Some other groups may be organizing protests too, but from what I've read the WM ones are probably the biggest.
If there's not a scheduled protest nearby there's always the option to make a sign and take to a street corner for a solo protest. If you're feeling especially ambitious there's always making a giant sign to prop up against the chain link at an interstate overpass (I've never done this but it looks fun).
i never understood how people especially can be proud of once country. in Europe being a patriot is very much frowned upon.
I live abroad, so I can just ignore the whole stupid thing. 😄
Nobody i know is hosting or attending a formal celebration, aside from one person attending a "Fuck Trump" bbq instead.
I think you mean No Kings Day.
I don't even like to call myself American. I'm a veteran, and it turned me off of America more than anything.
I've decided to actively take the flag back from conservatives. There are some good ideals and good people in this country, and good people who fought for those ideals. I'm not proud of most of what the government has done and all of what it is doing now, but I can be proud of the people who want to get along with everyone and fight for diversity and freedom and the good things that should be fought for.
State-level patriotism is always bullshit to begin with.
That's how you're tricked into loyalty based on the most arbitrary reasons.
Be the messenger of humanity and get curious about the Universe. People are brothers, and there's no pride in being born in one plot of land over the other.
load more comments
(8 replies)
Yep, not celebratin shit. Wife wants to invite friends over mostly cuz it’s a free day off.
view more: next ›