I really hope someone sets up a broad global server - I have heaps of non-technical friends that would be keen, but I can't really recommend it with only 5 servers, where 3 are location specific, one's a demo, and the other looks tech and german and generally confusing..
this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
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Bicycle Touring and Bikepacking
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For all the pedal pushers out there that love long distance cycling. There are no gear requirements and no 'minimum distances' here.
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Wow, what a read!
I was never a Komoot user. What happened to them, and the direction they are taking, is bound to happen to any and all platforms where corporate greed is the driving force.
An unexpectedly sophisticated take about social media. Consider posting it to !fediverse@lemmy.world.
I had never even heard of Komoot! My setup for route planning involves a single GPX file, a shell script, a Python script, a P2P file-sharing utility, the monster that is QGIS, and Osmand. It does exactly what I want with no data leakages, it's all open source - and as a solution it's completely unrealistic for anyone but techies.
I had never even heard of Komoot!
That is crazy, in my bubble seems like almost everybody's using it, they were sponsoring so many events, podcasts what have you. Komoot everywhere, so annoying (since you can't get to "usable" tracks unless you sign up). RWGPS seems to have made tracks non downloadable for "strangers" now too recently.
In fairness there are doubtless international A-list popstars I haven't heard of either! Our culture is becoming so fragmented.
But there's something I don't quite understand about this tracks issue. I get why people want to gamify and socialize their outdoor activity (humans love to compare, after all) but what's the deal with "downloading tracks"? Surely whatever's on OSM or OpenCycleMap is good enough if you want to know where to cycle?
The gamify / social aspect i am personally also not interested in, but the "tracks issue" :)
For example the torino-nice-rallye route is hosted there. Lots of other tracks too that i have been interested in, researching potential routes. Now if i am interested in the track for reference, but don't want to sign up, i'd have to trace the track. They are not necessarily marked routes on OSM.
Interesting. So, if they're not on OpenCycleMap (which is pretty dense AFAICT) then basically we're talking "secret routes", that's the added value. That's roughly what I'd guessed. I don't want to question it too much - after all, you say you get value out of it - but to me it feels to me like a bit of a weak proposition. My usual method is much more basic: I look at the satellite view and see where the trees are! Together with standard OSM data this has served me well enough on both foot and wheels.
the difference is that OpenCycleMap maps actual roads and cycle paths. Kamoot is more for journeys (e.g. recommended routes), which might use cyclepaths, but often won't. They aren't physical things, they are like a pub crawl for biking.
Sure, but that just describes a navigation function. On any OSM client you can select the cycle mode and it will pick an optimal route which uses whatever cyclepaths are available. The result is the same.
Nothing to do with navigation, it's about recommendations. Inspiration.
I don't know where are you from, so just my perspective from around Europe as I traveled.
In some places like Spain and Portugal the cycling routes aren't developed that much with signage or even half planned, it is bit local. You can get by with OSM OK-ish but I started to look up some of these routes scattered around the web.
In France and Belgium it more depends on the region so sometimes the routes are bit sparse and far away from each other. But the maps were really good for finding these connections between them. Otherwise most official routes are marked with standardized signage.
In CZ you have really dense cycling and hiking route network. It has standardized signage and is managed by 1 organisation since late 1800. So you can get pretty much everything on one place, the "secret" routes are only the different routes you connect together to make your trip. Some long distance routes like ViaCzechia uses the markings and you get the itinerary on the web or you can buy a book.
So it depends I can see why the people use it in some places it is nearly necessary, other places it can be nice to have and somewhere it can just give you an idea where to go but it isn't needed at all.
Interesting anecdotes. If signage is what's important, I agree that's an issue, but surely it's separate. What I don't get is why people are sharing (and paying for!) GPX tracks, i.e. to help them with GPS nav, when you all the information you could possibly need is already publicly available.
It wouldn't be that bad if the routes were at least planned, validated and marked somewhere. By planning in Brouter and OsmAnd I got multiple times spit out in the middle of fields without any route or in front of locked gate. If there would be some routes you can just load in your computer and follow, but no you have to rely a bit on your judgement and map reading skills.
The luxury of Czech routes that can be followed without GPS nav or even paper maps is its own league of map info that is just not available elsewhere. So I really understand why it is appealing to ride or even pay for that info.
OK that makes some sense.
By planning in Brouter and OsmAnd I got multiple times spit out in the middle of fields without any route or in front of locked gate
Yes this can be a problem. Uncertainty about road surface is a particular worry. At least once I've found myself basically riding across a field, when a it was marked as a dirt track. The locked-gate issue is even more problematic tho in practice I think I've never actually had it. More usually I'm surprised by how accurate the data is - and find myself wondering who it was who went to the trouble of doing it, and feeling grateful to them!
And of course that's the point about OSM data, IMO: if it's bad or wrong, ideally we should be fixing it rather than taking the consumer mindset and jumping ship to a paid product.
The luxury of Czech routes that can be followed without GPS nav or even paper maps is its own league of map info that is just not available elsewhere.
This seems to suggest that Czech navigation data is rights-protected, maybe by the national maps agency. I've heard that can be a problem. Again, it seems to me to be political problem to be fixed. But I get why you'd want to just have the best data available.
Yes, it is problem in osm data but that doesn't mean that there aren't people that just want something to work, the komoot atd makes it quite easy to see where people have gone and should be passable. And unfortunately most people have the consumer mindset about this.
Yeah the Czech touristic club is bit bitchey about that data and gives it only to the Czech equivalent to Google (seznam) but all of it is still in OSM. The paper maps are made by few companies and they are bit pricey too but I wouldn't tell that the data are looked down. There are some people trying to get it fixed (to be officially added to osm).
I read it yesterday and tbh this sentiment I get from most of these services.
So I plan locally, store the gpx files and don't share them yet. After I get home I will probably start a classic blog where I will laid it out for everyone.
Yeah i also do it only locally, although i got to say this wanderer.to thing looks pretty interesting. There is an instance on tchncs.de, i'm thinking about signing up there, just to have a look. Would be cool if that was also compatible with wordpress or ghost, to add the tracks from a blog into the wanderer sphere, maybe it is already possible, i don't know.
I didn't write it in my reply, so exactly this is something I am looking to.
Basically some integration with fediverse but in this case I am looking to do it bit backwards add it to the wanderer and link it/embed it on the blog.
Do you already know what type of software you'd wanna use for the blog? Some kind of federated blog i assume? I am playing around with wordpress again, i think it's pretty good for a non-techie person like me, i like it.
No, I will contact few people on Mastodon that play with it and offer webhosting.
As some of them said that it is the best way to support the running of the instance - make them business so they can run fediverse on side.
Why not post it here? Or another appropriate community with not much engagement. The (small) audience is already waiting.
Good question. But I don't know if I satisfy you with my answer.
I am getting to it, if you look at my older posts (and my mastodon) you can get the idea what I am doing since January.
So the thing is that I don't have the nerves to type more than few posts per week on Mastodon. But I want to do some write up on it and post it as a complete thing on one place and then link it/ repost it to social media. The blog will be the reference to the posts and resource for others that wants more structured info about it.
Iβm glad they wrote this and there are great points but itβs way too long. They need a volunteer with editing expertise.
I feel strange saying it, but ChatGPT could have helped (they state they used it to parse some T&C). I understand the craft going into an article is felt as something personal, but I had the feeling of reading the same paragraph over and over for most of the text. I enjoyed it in the end, but it took me two days to find the time :D