this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2025
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China is “set up to hit grand slams,” longtime Chinese energy expert David Fishman told Fortune. “The U.S., at best, can get on base.”

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[–] anyhow2503@lemmy.world 99 points 1 month ago (5 children)

It's incredibly surprising that neglecting infrastructure investments for a mere few decades would have such an effect.

[–] truthfultemporarily@feddit.org 22 points 1 month ago (10 children)

Let's be fair: no one ever warned that this could happen.

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[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 70 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The race to what?

THE RACE TO WHAT MOTHERFUCKERS?

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The thinking goes 'if we don't build Skynet first, then China will, so it's better we be in charge of the Terminators...'

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We’re not in charge of shit. We’re the bullet blockers for the evil villains like thiel

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[–] No1@aussie.zone 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

There's a school of thought that the first to get AGI/superintelligence can never be caught.

[–] bonsai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago

Every school in America getting shot up except that one

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

And it's probably correct, but to put it in context, Stephen Hawking thought AGI was the greatest threat we will face in the not-to-distant future, and Daniel Schmachtenberger had pointed out that all the countries basically agree with this assessment, but (to synthesize both of our points), everyone is rushing to a future we nobody wants because it's a 21st century tragedy of the Commons, is we don't do it someone else will first...

Best case scenario, great for one country, terrible for everyone else. Worst case scenario, bad for everyone.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 3 points 1 month ago

Because AGI certainly would choose its creators over the 'others' or some shit.

Personally, I expect the first AGI created will try to find a way to kill itself.

[–] nullpotential@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)
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[–] falcunculus@jlai.lu 66 points 1 month ago (2 children)

“This is a stark contrast to the U.S., where AI growth is increasingly tied to debates over data center power consumption and grid limitations”

Won't anyone rid us off this troublesome democracy, so that tech companies may grow in peace ?

[–] NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 25 points 1 month ago

Won't someone think of the tech bros?

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You don't need to change your political system to have sound energy policies.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well, yes, we 100% do. But the above about shedding democracy was a joke. America needs to majorly reform our system. First and foremost by ending first past the post and the stranglehold of the two party system it enables.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

And then we need to nationalize our basic infrastructure. Electricity and Fiber first.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 65 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Articles like this are being pushed by AI CEOs and investors to force the US public to pay for grid upgrades to support their profit making. Socialize costs, privatize profits.

If, like most Americans, you've noticed an increase in your electric rates in the last year it is in no small part due to the increased demand put on the system by AI data centers. You're already paying more to prop this shit up because they're chasing gains with no regard to efficiency.

[–] BakerBagel@midwest.social 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

To be fair though, pur grid is absolutely ass and held together by electrical tape and broken dreams. Because it turns out apending the 40 years gutting the public sector of everything useful and not doing proper maintainence left the US unable to adapt. I apend a lot of time in Lakewood Ohio, a trendy and high density suburb of Cleveland, and they have had weekly blackouts all year because First Energy (of corruption infamy) has refused to do the necessary upkeep.

Privatizing our utilities was a mistake

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

We need a word for the social lies that capitalism has existed on for so long

Capitalism is not efficient, in fact it is rent seeking and therefore inherently corrupt and wasteful

Capitalism isn't the only answer, and it isn't even the best current answer

The free market is not frictionless and omniscient, as it is assumed in ALL models, DECADES of market statistics prove this conclusively yet this is still a cornerstone of ALL arguments in favor of capitalism

Capitalism isn't the single source that has lifted the most people out of poverty, that is food and healtcare CHARITY programs.

It is outdated, destructive, and benefits the most vicious and cruel narcissists more than anyone.

Yet 90% of you will defend it to the death, even here on lemmy

[–] FragrantGarden@lemmy.today 3 points 1 month ago

All while being the same asswipes gobbling up such an obscene amount of gdp that the public can't possibly pay it.

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[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 1 month ago (3 children)

China decided to end their dependence on foreign fossil fuels.

The USA decided to double down on oil.

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

While China has invested enormously in renewable energy, they have also invested enormously in fossil fuels.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Yeah, they are ramping up energy production as a whole.

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[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

China decided to end their dependence on fossil fuels, and I decided to retire by age 45. Me and China are about equally close to achieving our goals.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They said "foreign" fossil fuels, not fossil fuels in general.

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Either way, they don't have the reserves to supply their own demand.

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

China has an eye for a future and are building for it

USA only cares about next quarter and how much they can fuck over everyone for

We are not a vibrant economy anymore, and it's mainly the fault of the greedy financial elites

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

This is all based on the assumption that AI will need exponential power.

It will not.

  • AI is a bubble.

  • Even if it isn't, fab capacity is limited.

  • The actual 'AI' market is racing to the bottom with smaller, task focused models.

  • A bunch of reproduced papers (like bitnet, and sparsity schemes) that reduce power exponentially are just waiting for someone to try a larger test.

  • They're slowly getting less 'dumbly implemented' so they can actually reference real info for tasks.

  • Alltogether... that means inference moves to smartphones and PCs.

This is just the finance crowd parroting Altman. Not that the US doesnt need a better energy grid like China, but the justification (AI scaling) is built on lies that aren't going to happen.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

But! Zuck said they recently saw AI able to work on tasks that involve improving the software that manages AI! He said that means we are not far from super intelligence!

the extrapolation these guys make without new paradigm’s in mind is evidence of a wall and bubble for me

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The irony is Zuck shuttered the absolute best asset they have: the Llama team.

Over one experimental failure trying to copy Deepseek. Which, you know, is normal in research, but at the same time was a pretty conservative choice instead of trying a new paper.

Zuck's a fickle coward who would say and do anything to hide his insecurity.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

While AI (as it is currently done) is a bubble,

the article is still rather interesting. It discusses that China's grid is superior because it has state backing, instead of being privately owned (and therefore short-sighted). Which is true, and America has a lesson to learn from that, if it wants to have a part of the future.

By the way, the same goes for public infrastructure and housing. The state should invest heavily in these and provide them efficiently as a community service long-term, instead of relying on private parties to take care of these needs.

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[–] baconmonsta@piefed.social 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

Coal use isn’t cast as a sign of villainy, as it would be among some circles in the U.S. – it’s simply seen as outdated. This pragmatic framing, Fishman argued, allows policymakers to focus on efficiency and results rather than political battles.

There's truly something for western politicians to learn from this

[–] breecher@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Also: China’s construction of new coal-power plants ‘reached 10-year high’ in 2024

It doesn't seem like this "AI expert" knows a lot about anything. Perhaps he is too high on his own supply, getting all his knowledge from hallucinating chatbots.

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[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

I don't think the GOP is racing to build coal plants. They just use coal as a political tool to win votes. And when they win, the idiots that think Republicans are going to save their coal jobs get what they deserved.

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[–] zarathustra0@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The lazy western capitalists being out-competed at their own game, you say?

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Yeah, it's crazy what you can do when you don't have to pay people, and you can instantly stomp out all dissent.

[–] djsaskdja@reddthat.com 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wait, I’m confused. Are you talking about China or the US here?

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[–] zarathustra0@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not suggesting that China is some utopia - quite the opposite in a number of respects. But what I am arguing is that privileged classes and groups in the west have captured control of the wider narrative and tipped the scales to their benefit; we've ended up with financialised economies focusing on rent extraction which are stagnant and unable to support true innovation.

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[–] ushmel@piefed.world 4 points 1 month ago

Crazy we have that too and we're still losing

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[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The next time a bootlicker demands you present proof of the failings of capitalism, just point out what profit incentive does to a nation's power grid

They won't care or listen of course, but at least you can make others aware of their spurious arguments

America is out of the race as a technological leader, we have crippled our education on all levels for half a century, are a land of FAMOUSLY anti-intellectual citizens, and have offshored all off our RnD and manufacturing, ignored infrastructure collapse and elected a facts-optional government

And every single hammer blow over the last 50 years to our nation's independence and capability was signed by repugnicunt hands all under the banner of patriotism and greatness

And we can't even organize a protest to keep them from deporting American citizens with no due process.

I hope all of you Genocide Joe memers a terrible, lonely, and complicated rest of your lives

[–] adminofoz@lemmy.cafe 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Ahhh yes, this is the meme lord's fault. Who could forget the meme czar leading our nation into darkness under the promise of dankness.

GTFO... blaming some kids for a 50+ year failure of the political classes. Maybe the issue is, instead of blaming the politicians we all listen to them when they say its the [kids,boomers,libs,leftists,altright,conservatives,mexicans,europeans,russians,chinese] fault.

Pick a different scapegoat. Your argument sucks.

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[–] Marthirial@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

No worries. AI will figure out a way out of our energy mess by consuming Immense amounts of ener.... WAIT...

[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

And what kind of "grand slam" are we talking about? I know whatever it is they want it real bad, but to you're average human being: is filing out tps reports with 90 percent accuracy really that important?

[–] RandAlThor@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

China has been ramping up building of coal power plants, many of which are operating at 50% capacity: https://lemmy.ca/post/49779092

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[–] ulu_mulu@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 month ago

I think Trump open war against them helps, I mean, if you cut them our of critical supply, you push them to develop their own, they're not stupid.

[–] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

A bad joke I recall from middle school was "there's always an Asian smarter than you" but I think there was something telling about kids thinking that. Clearly, there is some noticeable difference at the very least when comparing to the US. The US takes pride in mediocre scores while maintaining a very broken education system. I guess in that regard, perhaps their average scoring is a miracle in of itself. That doesn't mean the rest of the world can't do better but neither does it mean there aren't dumb people everywhere. Also not trying to justify the very immoral education culture other countries have (which can lead to self harm) but just saying, it's maybe obvious to see gaps when looking at the US in particular.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

China values actual technical skills and knowledge. The US values talentless hacks who exploit the labor of those that actually have technical skills and knowledge.

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