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Perchance - Create a Random Text Generator

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⚄︎ Perchance

This is a Lemmy Community for perchance.org, a platform for sharing and creating random text generators.

Feel free to ask for help, share your generators, and start friendly discussions at your leisure :)

This community is mainly for discussions between those who are building generators. For discussions about using generators, especially the popular AI ones, the community-led Casual Perchance forum is likely a more appropriate venue.

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Information box for ACC? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by Mattias@lemmy.world to c/perchance@lemmy.world
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Would it be possible to add an information box that's separated from reminder note and character creation? It would behave like a hidden information box that injects general and important information into the world, lore and general information about the session without interfering with the character itself, here's few examples:

1- I want to add ancient china to a fantasy settings, of course, it will be a different nation with different name, but the clothes/dresses, culture, architecture and people would be the same, just like how the default fantasy settings is usually European (same people, architecture, dress, armor...etc). I tried my absolute best but the damn ai keep referencing the grand Chinese architecture in a fantasy settings where real nations don't exist, also it emphasizes it a bit too much, most of my sessions, the AI won't shut the fuck up about how everything and everyone is Chinese, so this information box you would include information like "quan li is a nation that is based on medieval China, with the same customs, dress, people, style of government, army, architecture, names and culture, avoid referencing China itself and use it as a source of inspiration", this information will be used for lore and storytelling (I used lore entires to make it work, but it feels like a script that the AI reads and don't abide by its rules and instructions, it doesn't change shit, I don't want to hear about how "ornate" and "grand" the Chinese shit in my fantasy settings ever again, shit was tiring, and yes, I read the ppt/word/excel/whatever about using lore entires, I know how to properly use them).

2- it can be used use it to set the tone, world type and adventure genre, you can write what type of adventure you are going through and the AI will hold onto it for the rest of the chat as a core component of the session, it would be seamless and ordinary implementation that feels natural, not something that the AI would pander about, I was semi successful in this but eventually the AI sharted, I made a comedic and cartoony session and the characters behaved as if they were in loony tunes, like something heavy falling on the them, they would get flattend, their eyes would bulge outward when they see something shiny, it was a hilarious session but it returned to the boring and cliché fantasy adventure about uncovering secrets and solving mysteries, it went from spongebob to scooby doo, (it wasn't even a fantasy session, it was the real world but with Tom and Jerry logic), it didn't adhere to the type of world that the session revolves around, also i didn't even went that far into the session for it to break down so quickly, it did just that for no reason, even after a thousand response regeneration, they all came out the same, so in this box you would write like "this session is comedic and should resemble cartoons, it should follow cartoon logic and pacing", just like my first point, the AI would never stop talking about how everything is cartoonish and how cartoony the logic is in this world, even the characters won't shut up about it, it was hilarious to see the AI trying super hard to talk about how everything is cartoony, but the reminder notes is preventing it from doing so, I remember seeing multiple responses that come out as "alright, no mentioning about how everything is cartoony", casually breaking the fourth wall and overriding the character.

3- giving the character traits/abilities/tangible things that they are not aware of, for example: a clueless guy who can turn into dragon when he's in great stress, he has absolutely no idea that he has that ability, yet the AI, again, won't shut up how tingly and dormant the dragon core is inside this guy, then the line between being unaware and fully knowing starts to blur, for example, sometimes he forgets that he's not supposed to know that he can turn into a dragon, so he turns into one and acts as if it's something he can do casually without being stressed out? Also suddenly he knows that he can do it, Also he keeps saying shit along the lines of "if we are ever in troubles, I would Use my... Secret ability to get us out of harm's way" also, just like point 2, it would break the fourth wall and say "oh right, I wasn't supposed to know that". In this box you would write something like "John was born with a dragon core that turns him into a dragon when he's in great stress and he's not aware of it...Blabla" and in the character creation section, you would lay out his character normally, like his personality, general lore, stuff that he obviously knows and aware of.. Etc.

Giving instructions in the character creation ? Done that, in the reminder note? Yup, lore entries? I sure did, Hell, I even tried to use general writing instructions out of desperation, so my question is, is it possible for this feature to be implemented? Or it's something impossible due to technical limitations or programming issues? or it will need a gazillion years worth of development to work properly? If this feature isn't possible at the moment, how to stop the AI or at least, mitigate this weird behaviors and add stuff that the AI won't babble about or know but are important for the story? I'm not 100% sure but if the new text model comes out, would it adhere to instructions too well to the point that this information box feature would be obsolete and unnecessary? Thanks in advance.

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[–] GrumblePuss@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

AI is stateless, which means it's seeing everything for the first time every time it responds. Writing instructions, characters, lore, reminders, your response, chat history, all of it is just sent as a big block of text with little header text for each section. The AI then has to parse through all of it, try to make sense of it, and then come up with a response to send back to you. What you're asking for is just another block of text to send along with everything else. Really no different than a reminder.

This is a simple limitation of the current AI model and it will improve (probably by a fairly good amount) with the text upgrade, but it still won't be perfect because AI doesn't actually understand.

You're providing the AI with information that sounds like China, which means the AI is going to look at the data it, see stuff that sounds like China, and that stuff is related to China, so it's going to talk about China.

[–] Mattias@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I see, so it's an Ai limitation, alright that's fair, but my question isn’t about adding yet another reminder note, it's something like ui change or engine change, shit like “GM-only world state” or "game master rule set" that model would consult to avoid taboo topics/responses and adhere to rules, stored outside visible prompts (example: penalize mentioning “China/Chinese" during the sessions, so it would counts as filter violations, just like how many LLMs like chatgpt and copilot censor and avoid NSFW stuff before/mid responding). It's going to be different from reminder notes because it's doing its stuff during decode time. It won’t make the AI understand anything but I think that maybe it would stop leaks, like John being aware of his dragon core, using it as he please and breaking the fourth wall and the China non-stop name glazing in a fantasy settings. So yeah it sucks ass, looks like we gotta wait for few years for the AI to mature further it seems.

[–] GrumblePuss@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

What you are suggesting is something called an "editor phase", some COT (chain of thought, commonly known as "thinking" models) do this to an extent. It's also something that can be done via JavaScript in the current AAC right now. To do this in AAC, you can either fork the current chat and make your own changes, or you can leverage the JavaScript function on characters to have the AI respond twice. Once to perform a standard completion, and the next, passing the entire chat again, this time including the last response along with instructions on what to "edit". The AI makes a new response, and you replace the last response with the modified one. AI isn't actually capable of self-analysis or of thinking about what its going to do as its responding, so to help mitigate this issue, you must break things into steps.

[–] Mattias@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So it's kinda possible, that's good to know, but I will be honest, I don’t know much about coding or setting that stuff up myself, so the JavaScript workaround isn’t really something I could pull off myself, however, there was a JavaScript code that you can put in the JavaScript section when making a character, it works kinda kinda similar to what I was talking about in this post, it works as a filter, it scans each response and remove repetitive words, phrases and tropes from the chat itself and tries to stop certain behaviours, the problem is, it's extremely intrusive as it starts scanning few seconds after the AI stops generating a response and hits you with a pop-up window that says "scanning", also the scan is slow, sometimes does absolutely nothing and worst of all, occasionally it gets stuck in a infinite loop that you can't escape, you can't do anything while it's "scanning", forcing you to reset or delete the chat, Now I'm not sure if it's ACC being ass or the issue is within the code itself, but it making me less optimistic about JS coding as a solution. anyway im hoping that the new text model will have better instruction adherence, it will save us the chronic headache we have from the clunky Llama 2.

[–] Petra@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Props to GrumblePuss for explaining how the AI works perfectly. It doesn't save anything, it will get overwhelmed eventually and a new field on ACC is just text that gets added at a specific location in the final prompt the AI receives.

This is an example what I refer to as a "final prompt", which is what the AI actually receives when a message is requested.

So, as you can see, no field does anything magic of any sort. It is just placed somewhere in the wall of text the AI receives and how it interprets things is up to it.

Needless to say, that there are a lot of models out there. ACC only works with Perchance, but there are other AI chat platforms with the same or better capabilities out there.

SillyTavern allows you to connect to any API through its API key or to models you can run locally in your computer. It has almost all the same features and there is also a community that makes extensions to provide more functionality. It also provides you a lot of customization for the final prompt and explicitly shows you token information such as how many you are using.

It doesn't commit the sin of ACC, which is to truncate the character descriptions violently without letting the user know, making them wonder why their 6400+ long description char does not have its description being used properly.

I've switched to SillyTavern using Gemini 2.5 Pro or 2.5 Flash and haven't looked back ever since. My lore alone is like 10k tokens at this point, more than what ACC can handle in its entirety and Gemini absorbs and uses it without a sweat.

Of course, you can't use these big boy corpo AIs if you play around with NSFW content, which is not my problem as I have no interest in that. If that's your case, then running locally or waiting for the new model is your best bet.

[–] Mattias@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

So the current model in ACC is pretty outdated and absolutely loves to ignore most of the instructions (either intentionally because it's dumb or being forced to truncate the description due to overwhelming number of information given), I guess I will wait for the new text model, my gripe with big corpo Ai's that you mentioned is that they are too... Formal? Basically it censors stuff that it consider as NSFW, I'm not talking about smut stuff, I'm talking hardcore violence, I'm trying to pull off berserk or dark souls level of dread and misanthropy, as dark fantasy is one of my favorite genres, but the constant "violence bad, can't do that" warnings throw me off, I mentioned this somewhere but when I played as a lonely mage living in a cozy cove alone, someone approached my residence, despite my constant warnings, he won't back off, so I used fireball spell and hurl it at his feet, not the guy himself, I aimed at his feet as a warning, the AI didn't like that at all and gave me a warning, if I received a warning for this, what would I receive if I tore a new one for monster or a major villain? The AI would go apeshit. anyway, thank you Petra and GrumblePuss for your valuable information, I really hope the new model will stick to instructions well, unlike the current one.