To those who repeat the line “I believe in democratic centralism so I won’t join” I say: so do I. If that’s such a sticking point for you to not join DSA, which organization practicing democratic centralism are you currently a part of?

Do you think Lenin or Mao woke up one day with a perfectly structured organization laying at their feet comprised of only those who held similar beliefs to them? Of course they didn’t. They crafted and cultivated these organizations and revolutionary mindsets for decades before seeing the fruits of their labor. If you aren’t organizing you are not only not a revolutionary, you are a counterrevolutionary. Are you waiting for a perfect movement to be waiting at the foot of your bed one morning instead of putting in the labor to craft one you see as suitably revolutionary? Not to even scold you, but factually your absence from organization based on personal ideology favors only the capitalist and harms only your comrades.

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[–] aaro@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

There might be things you don't like about the DSA, that's fine and valid. But if the left is going to win, we need to fucking cooperate. The DSA isn't perfect, but there's no such thing as a perfect org.

Ask the Floridians and Mainers who's wage got raised if the DSA is too lib.

Ask people from Boulder, CO who are now protected by No Eviction Without Representation if the DSA is too lib.

Ask the Oregonians who now get universal Pre-K paid for by the rich if the DSA is too lib.

All 3 of these were campaigns DSA put in serious work on.

But most importantly, ask the rich how they feel about the DSA. There's no active American org out there (with the possible exceptions of some of the larger unions, who the DSA supports) that has separated more bourgeois from their money.

[–] anthropicprincipal@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

Portland DSA in the pre-covid times had weekly potlucks with mostly vegan/vegetarian food.

Weekly potlucks build communities.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago)

You could be the hardlinest MLM in the world

Marx, Lenin, and Mao would all laugh at you ignoring a simple opportunity to engage with your community and build relationships as comrades through mutual aid like this

[–] pooh@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

It seems to me like there are many advantages to joining a big tent org like the DSA with some level of mainstream acceptance. Having a constant influx of people you can radicalize is one advantage. Another is that having some mainstream acceptance seems like it would make it more difficult for the feds to effectively infiltrate and/or dismantle it, as they did to so many radical groups in the 60s and 70s. A group that is explicitly revolutionary seems much more likely to be a target, and I suppose this is why front groups exist.

[–] gammison@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago) (1 children)

People also literally forget that DSA formed out of two groups merging. One kinda reformist Marxist/ some social democrats in DSOC, and the other NAM (New American Movement), which was a couple thousand communists who left CPUSA for how shit it was. The reason the demcent clause in the constitution is actually a legacy from the ex-CPUSA communists who joined, due to both their experiences of the absolute wrecking that occurred in New Communist Movement orgs and SDS, and the atrocious way democratic centralism was practiced by CPUSA in the 60s and 70s. The other founder of DSA that is always overshadowed is Dorothy Healey, who was one of the most prominent American communists in California in the 40s to 60s.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

And every year the DSA changes its rules regarding organization and membership, with the changes coming from the people who make up DSA. The beauty of it being a flawed horizontal organization is that it is a flawed horizontal organization. A few loud and convincing voices are all it takes for major change in almost no time

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

A few loud and convincing voices

:sicko-crowd:

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

😏 could be you baby

[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

We should take the same approach Lenin took with the UK Labour Party. The DSA is a bougeois workers organisation.

Join, but do not compromise views or aims and ruthlessly criticise non-revolutionary views. You're not there to do things, you're there to radicalise the base.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

Bingo. You are there to combat liberalism. They have built the organization in such a way that everyone has an equal voice. Make yours the loudest and most sure and you’ll undoubtedly win people over

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago (1 children)

If you think you're too good for the DSA and that the folks in it are literally no better than standard libs, IMO you're about 2 steps away from being a leftcom.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

Leftcoms in mirror are closer than they appear

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago) (1 children)

Just join any org and do shit irl pls. The USA is so far from a revolution at this point that it doesn't really matter which leftist org you join tbh. Is the DSA overly liberal with stuff like straight up banning democratic centralisation within the org? Probably, but it's still good to join and go do stuff irl with other members and comrades, and actually advocate for and accomplish things within your local community.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

If Mao could ally with fascists for a goal that would only be realized 20 years down the line, we can ally with AOC to attempt to build on what little left momentum there is here in the US

[–] carbohydra@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

The Soviets were also twisting Chiang's balls pretty hard but you got a point

[–] Shitbird@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago* (last edited 4 years ago) (1 children)

libs ITT:

:is-this: "is this a vicious personal attack against my self worth as a human being?"

edit: lol I hurt someone's feelings enough they posted TERF shit

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

Very based that calling out a lib revealed them to be exactly that, resulting in their purge

[–] Fartman77@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

GOOD POST

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

Unironically ironically shitposting my way towards empowering the American left

[–] Straight_Depth@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (3 children)

Just join the cops and make them less bad :thumb-cop:

[–] aaro@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

echoing @notthenameiwant - this is so toxic that the feds ought to be paying you to spread it. The DSA has been victorious in minimum wage hikes, rent control measures, and strong environmental legislation, on the level of entire states, in the last 6 months alone. You won't catch me saying they're not at least a little lib, but "a little lib and saving the proletariat from abuse by landlords and employers on a scale of hundreds of thousands of people" is a lot better than whatever you want to call "not lib" that presumably comprises nothing but turning leftist infighting to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[–] notthenameiwant@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

I love comparing active socialists doing good work on the ground to the police. Good thing I can make this point online without ever having to make a difference on the ground.

This take is straight toxic.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

There is no difference between good and bad things.

⬇️⬇️⬇️

[–] Chomsky@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (2 children)

This isn't really an argument. You could literally just this logic to apply to anything more lib than you.

[–] aaro@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

The DSA is not an intrinsically toxic organization, and the DSA achieves net good. For those two reasons, I think you're wrong.

[–] CarlTheRedditor@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

It's not an argument, it's a call to action. The only logic here is that if you go out into the world, you can have an impact on it.

[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 0 points 4 years ago (1 children)

I am under the discipline of a democratic-centralist organization, and I don't want to give that up in favor of the DSA.

[–] opposide@hexbear.net 1 points 4 years ago

As am I. Are you currently engaged in an organization that practices democratic centralism?