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I get the sentiment, but it is the case that MAGA is very happy about the stripping of civil rights (for others) and indifferent to supportive on the War on Gaza.
But they are (used to be?) not indifferent to powerful pedophiles running the country. If you want the slaughter to end, if you want civil rights restored, this is the issue that makes it happen.
But they are (used to be?) not indifferent to powerful pedophiles running the country
Hate to break it to you, but they are completely indifferent to that, as long as it is their pedophiles running the country. Are people new here? Are you really so oblivious as to how fascists words work that you naively take them upon it?
My MAGA father brought up the Epstein files to me last time we had a coherent discussion. He did feel the need to mention Bill Clinton was in them, but it was clear that cracks had formed.
We need to hammer President Pedophile with the Epstein files non-stop.
It's not the only issue, and it horrifyingly isn't even the worst issue, but if it can serve as the thin edge of the wedge, it's important to not let up.
If that works in your specific situation, then great. Keep doing it.
But I don't think it's a one size fits all solution
I did not make it clear how significant this is.
If you look at the bookshelves in my parents' house, you'll see swastikas staring back at you.
It doesn't have to be a one size fits all situation. However, if it erodes support among the deeply committed, most fascist faithful, there's a chance that this doesn't have to end with EVERYONE dying.
At best, it was a way for them to express frustrations using language they understand. However, what's actually driving their anger is usually the economy, so it isn't Epstein that actually makes the difference. It's also a moot point anyways because nothing will restore rights short of Trump dying, as he's never gonna leave office before that happens.
What this meme is about is people callously acting like Epstein is the only issue that matters, bringing it up when something genuinely terrible happens. It treats these issues like they don't matter, like the problem with the GOP is nothing more than political team sports. It makes my blood boil when lives are genuinely being ruined and all some people care about is the well established fact that he's a pedophile.
People can complain about Epstein, but that need to stop bringing it up in unrelated conversations about Trump.
I agree with you that the Epstein case is relatively small compared to the millions of people who Trump is causing to suffer. However, the Epstein files also seem to be the first thing that cracked his base of political support. It is a weakness that anyone against Trump should exploit, not because it's the most important issue, but because it's the one that is most likely to remove him from power.
Deporting immigrants, locking up trans people, outlawing abortion, destroying free speech and political opposition, supporting genocide... These are all things that his base WANTS. They rejoice in the suffering of the "other". They care about the economy too, but they're told dumb to realize that Trump is the problem.
That's all well and good, but like I said, keep it the fuck out of serious conversation, especially on here. There aren't gonna be many Trumpers on this platform, as leftists and queer people are such a major population that they'd struggle to tolerate it. At most there are very mild conservatives who are usually not beyond reaching with actual arguments. I would get this argument more if we were on a corpo platform, but on this one you're just distracting from issues we actually care about.
edit: spelling
You're making a lot of broad assumptions about audiences. And "serious conversation"... My sibling in Satan this is c/politicalmemes.
These memes don't just stay on Lemmy either. They get reposted all across the internet, printed on stickers and posters and t-shirts. The UK just jailed journalists last week for the terrible crime of projecting a picture of Trump and Epstein together on a building during Trump's visit. It's very much a topical issue that is heavily tied to broader issues of free speech and political corruption. And it's not just about Trump- how many other powerful people are in those files that faced no consequences? This isn't distracting from other issues- it's a part of them. All of these other issues seem to always track back to billionaires promoting horrible inhuman behavior and fascism, so I don't see how the Epstein files are distracting from anything.
I'm also critical of Biden and Garland for not doing more with this when they were in power. This isn't
It doesn't just happen here genius. I've seen such reaction images on news stories about the administration looking to label antifa as terrorists. This is a seriously scary move that will be used to silence any dissent, but apparently it's all a fucking distraction from well established pedophilia by a man above the law.
I really I shouldn't be surprised by the reaction here. If we're talking about audience, I know a lot of people here are the ones who need to see this meme.
I have yet to see any indication that a single person is trying to paint Gaza as a distraction from the Epstein files . This post seems pretty fishy to me.
Who said Gaza specifically? Do I need to provide an example of that in particular for you to believe it's a problem, or is the meme here from a day ago about Jimmy Kimmel not proof enough?
Okay so what does "bombing civilians" refer to then? Also, I don't know what meme you're talking about, but I'm not sure a single post/meme would prove your point.
I was talking about the Venezuelans murdered in international waters. When the war was escalating people called it a distraction, even though it's predictably led to violent acts of terror in Latin America. I do not have that saved, but I do have an instance of people talking about Epstein in another comm.
OK, so I did see posts about the Venezuelans, but not that it was a "distraction". The two linked examples you provided here seem like entirely fair to think may be intended as distractions. When the president is an actual pedophile, why wouldn't he do insane shit to distract from that fact? Things like this can both definitely be distractions and also expressions of power meant to tamp down criticism of the administration.
If you think both of those examples are fair and valid, we will never bridge this gap. Just know that it's very upsetting when you elevate this issue above others, so don't be surprised when you face pushback.
... why is it that people think there's no way to care about more than one thing at a time? We can keep pushing for the Epstein files and care about other things too. It sort of seems like you advocate for forgetting them. Are you?
A comment I made elsewhere about people bringing up Epstein:
Just something to think about here - republicans all seem pretty gung-ho on the fascism, and they have control of everything right now. Do you think pointing it out will change republican minds? Those in office and those who are the voters backing them up.
Personally, I don't see that happening. You'll get some halfhearted dissent here and there, but I think thats mostly cover.
So, what would cause a major split or shift? I think solid confirmation of Trump making use of Epstein's 'services' could do that. Maybe it won't, I can't predict the future (obviously). It seems much more likely than pointing out how rights are being stripped away (again and again), because they haven't cared about our rights yet.
That doesn't mean I think we should ignore what's happening, just that I think there is substantial value in making sure the Epstein files don't just disappear. If there wasn't, I don't think they would be trying so hard to deflect/ignore/cover up anything related to it.
There are some people who tall about the economy, but let's be honest there too - the wealthy will use a bad economy to buy things up, meanwhile the soybean farmers praying (literally) to Trump think he has some grand plan and this hurt is temporary.
Its the same with taking away peoples rights to be who they are, or to even speak about who they are - they agree with it because its hurting the people they want it to. They won't see the hypocrisy.
If trump supporters can see Trump as a child abuser and liar, then maybe they'll see he was lying about other things too. Maybe they'll recognize that the people who were chest thumping about Epstein files that suddenly went quiet - the ones that fill up their Facebook feed and their alt right TV network - are also liars and manipulators.
Guaranteed? No. But a realistic approach thats gained traction.
I'm still very skeptical about the approach because Trump's friendship with Epstein has been well known, while conservatives advocating child marriages never seemed to dissuade the base much in the past. However, I'm not asking people to stop talking about, I'm asking that it not be brought up when serious shit is going down. It's so fucked up.
The only thing about it now is how hard he is falling against releasing anything - which makes it seem like there is enough to really cause problems.
And I get it on some posts, its pretty excessive to bring up in some situations.
Is "forget about the Epstein files, they don't matter" the new "dont vote for Harris, she supports genocide"?
totally. the Epstein files is our bridge to the people who don't think all the extrajudicial violence is real, or worse, they think it's thwarting sex traffickers in league with Epstein and his associates rather than being enacted by a main associate.
we have to resist the extrajudicial violence, but we have to make it abundantly clear that extrajudicial violence is being used as weaponized distraction because it is. it's the best way to stop it
It's also just so weird that this sentiment seems to be popping up out of nowhere. If I didn't recognize OP's username, I'd definitely think it was an organized campaign from some TotallynotBotFarm
100% agreed on what you said. Epstein is breaking people on the right, why would we stop talking about it? We want as many people as possible to see how bad they fucked up
i understand the root of the sentiment. it's exhausting talking to people in a cult to get them out of the cult about the things the cult talks about. this is also why i think in a rising era of state based religious fascism, atheists and agnostics need to study theology. people who are resisting the fascism have to know how to make propaganda that works on the masses in thrall that can be shifted. not doing it is just kind of letting the fascists win, and that's not an acceptaple outcome. i understand not wanting to do it because you're not interested, but these times demand empathetic self sacrifice to create a future in which we can just not study things we're not interested in
i feel like i'm not making sense
I grew up religious so I know exactly what you're talking about. You can't convince someone on the right with the same logic as someone on the left.
It's generally better to give someone the facts and let them come to their own conclusion than to spell it out for them but that's especially true with the religious right.
But we don't have to convince them that pedophiles are bad. We don't have to harp on the likelihood that Trump is one. We just have to agree that Epstein was a sex trafficker, that there's powerful people protecting his clients, and the government holds the key to prosecuting them.
Want a shortcut? "When is Trump going to hold Bill Clinton and the other pedo democrats accountable?"
They always were.
Please be parody please be parody
Itβs parody now but I do believe very soon a portion of the country will be perfectly ok with this being fact.
if he gets a third term this will be a sticker on people's cars
Hundreds of people ice kidnapped have disappeared
EXACTLY!!!
Leave it to Americans to have fucked up priorities. Pedophilia is more scandalous than murder and torture even if the latter happen on an industrial scale.
To the detractors saying it's the only thing that could get Trump supporters to abandon him. He could do a minor live on TV on Times Square and they would not budge so long he kills and prosecutes those they hate.
I think people are tired of the endless attention shifting from one news cycle to the next. Everything is super important, until the next thing comes along which always demands our attention.
e: I never expressed an opinion on whether it was good/bad. I'm just explaining the reason why.
Then hammer about the regime and political environment as a whole. Zoom out to the bigger picture, and let the details blend together. Focus on the neverending stream of one dangerous step after the other, and the rapidness of it.
That there's non-stop news about new horrible things that are happening should be immensely alarming. Don't focus on individual trees that are burning, focus on the forest that's on fire.
We work forest fires by zones and in teams. We work closely with the rangers who knew the individual ridges and trees, and with surrounding counties and townships concerning risk and resources.
Epstein shame stick is working better than direct conversations about human trafficking and capitalism. No one is shutting up about Palestine. No one is shutting up about the amazon and pipelines and contaminated farm land and the cold death of comoditization.
We're trying to reclaim the radio tower and the factory. Pick a cause, pick a group, do the fuck out of your role.
The problem I have is that people are hijacking threads about other very serious things that he is doing every day.
And yet, forcing Epstein into every conversation only marginalizes the people who each particular issue affects. If people claim that trans people getting our rights taken away is a distraction from Epstein, it makes me feel like my life doesn't matter. If people act like our freedom of speech getting taken away distracts from Epstein, I feel like they're ignoring the real issue. It has a time and a place, not every time and every place.
So then post articles about it, or write them yourself. Don't hijack threads about Trump designating trans people as terrorists, or Trump deporting people from South America to fucking Africa.
Buddy, you're living in a crazy world where people know what's real and care about things that matter.
