As a user of Green Ubuntu, I feel personally attacked.
this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2025
239 points (96.1% liked)
linuxmemes
27553 readers
405 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves/tolerates/hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. π¬π§ Language/ΡΠ·ΡΠΊ/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. π¬π§π¦πΊπΊπΈ
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations. - Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed. Β
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
As a user of Red Ubuntu, I feel personally hot.
I thought a guy at the end would walk in without a mustache and he'd be called Debian.
Kubuntu LTS gang, rise up!
spoiler
--minimal-install; no snap fuckery.
Until you run an apt command and both snapd and snaps get forcibly reinstalled.
Just donβt use Ubuntu. If you need to stay in the Debian ecosystem then just use Debian with KDE.
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, but removes or otherwise avoids most of the problems with Ubuntu.
It doesn't come with KDE, but it's a solid option for those not quite comfortable with Debian or Linux in general (or people who prefer Ubuntu as a base).
There's also LMDE if you want a Debian base.
It doesn't come with KDE
It doesn't come with KDE preinstalled
You can e.g. mintify your Kununtu by installing Linux Mint packages instead of the original Ubuntu packages (add the corresponding LM repos matching your Ubuntu version and give them a sufficiently higher priority) or, alternatively, install KDE on Linux Mint.
I've heard that KDE on Mint can be a bit temperamental. I assume because most of their stuff is focused around GTK instead of QT and adding KDE somehow messes with stuff.
Of course one should avoid using the originally provided GTK software under KDE, as it's also spamming the app drawer.
It should work the same as for the Ubuntu -> Kununtu transition: Install some KDE Plasma desktop metapackage, logout and login using KDE, then remove the libgtk* packages to uninstall the Mate/Cinnamon desktop and it's associated applications. One can reinstall the desired packages, e.g. Firefox, Thunderbird, Synaptic, afterwards.
@BlameTheAntifa, I disagree. To test your claim, I ran a search with admin privileges for snap and snapd on my Kubuntu LTS workstation, and there's no trace of it.
Also, the following is from a query to Gemini Flash 2.5:
Kubuntu's minimal install, especially in version 24.04 and later, generally does not install any Snap packages and often leaves out the
snapdservice by default, resulting in a snap-free system. Be cautious, as installing certain common applications like Firefox from the default repositories may still pull insnapdas a dependency.
I think that's what they were saying: it still uses Ubuntu repositories, which use snap. So to install, e.g. Firefox natively, you need to manually meddle with PPAs, or compile from source. The package manger, arguably the biggest strength of any Linux distro, becomes next to useless unless you want to run snaps
I've been daily driving Kubuntu LTS for 3 years now completely snap-free due to --minimal-install, and use Waterfox, a Firefox fork that doesn't use snapd as far as I can see. snap-free *buntu is alive and well. It doesn't take much effort.
but why
seriously. now you basically don't have access to a large number of packages. sure, waterfox is a good alternative to firefox. but say you do want to install firefox (or any other package that canonical distributes only as a snap), what do you do?
I get that it's possible to run Kubuntu, or even stock Ubuntu, without snap. that's the beauty of an open OS, you can do whatever you want with it. I just don't get why you would want to run a distro that is actively pushing a standard on you that you don't want
but why
To explicitly piss off the distro purists and cultists.
Jkπ
Really, it's because sometimes I like to run my experimental DNN applications on bare metal, and many of those use containers have an Ubuntu base.
What's wrong with snaps? I'm relatively new to Linux and keep hearing people banging on about them.
snaps are similar to flatpaks, little containers that hold apps that can be sandboxed for security, reproducibility, and convenience. cannonical decided to push their own snaps over flatpak, a widly accepted standard. the big problem with snaps is the store where you get them is proprietary, and they will sneakily install snaps instead of standard packages when you try to install programs you didn't realize we're even snaps.
...so they're the flatpaks we have at home? :P
Seriously though. Wow, that royally sucks. Thanks for the info.
That's not the full picture.
The proprietary store backend really isn't consequential. Most websites are, and if you have a modern computer, you've got proprietary firmware running at ring -3. At best, it's a distraction from Snap's real issues.
Snap packages are compressed filesystems, similar to squashfs. When an application is started for the first time, the filesystem has to be decompressed and mounted to the root filesystem, which (depending on the computer) can take a long time. It also litters your mount points with loopback devices.
Snap's sandboxing only works on systems running Systemd. No Devuan, no Artix, no Alpine; the packages will work, but without sandboxing.
The worst part is Canonical's desperate attempts to make snaps happen.
- ~~Ubuntu ships with a modified
aptthat first checks if the desired package is available as a snap, and if so, installs snapd and the snap package without asking or even notifying the user.~~ Strike that, it's even worse. https://feddit.uk/comment/20490326 - Canonical repackages third-party software as snaps, which has caused issues for the developers who aren't involved in the repackage: https://mastodon.social/@TTimo/111772575146054328
- In fact, they have published malware on the snap store because review practices are shit: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/exodus-movement-exod/38904
- Canonical has forced other official flavors (Xubuntu, Kubuntu, etc; to note: they're not maintained by Canonical) to ship their systems without Snap's direct competitor Flatpak out of the box. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/ubuntu-flavors-no-flatpak
...and I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting about.
They haven't modified apt; they abuse an extra version number that supercedes the major version number of a package. I think it's meant to be used for new packages that reuse the name of an abandoned project. Canonical publish packages for software like Firefox that depend on snapd and just run snap install firefox instead of actually installing anything. Since they bumped that extra version number, their packages always have a higher precedence than even the officially packaged debs from Mozilla.
Thanks, that's even more fucked up.
What's even even more fucked up is that the package still installs an executable to /usr/bin/firefox, but it's just a wrapper script that launches the Snap application... and also replaces your desktop shortcuts, application launcher shortcuts, and favourites with its own Reforged Edition file if you're running GNOME, Unity, MATE, or KDE Plasma.
Excerpt from /usr/bin/firefox Canonical Edition(TM)
# [...]
# GNOME Shell
OLD="firefox.desktop"
NEW="firefox_firefox.desktop"
FAVS=$(gsettings get org.gnome.shell favorite-apps 2> /dev/null)
if echo "$FAVS" | grep -q "'$OLD'"; then
NEWFAVS=$(echo $FAVS | sed -e "s#'$OLD'#'$NEW'#")
gsettings set org.gnome.shell favorite-apps "$NEWFAVS"
fi
# MATE
OLD="/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop"
NEW="/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/firefox_firefox.desktop"
OBJECTS=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel object-id-list 2> /dev/null)
for object in $OBJECTS; do
object=$(echo $object | cut -d\' -f2)
launcher=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location)
if [ "$launcher" = "'$OLD'" ]; then
gsettings set org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location "'$NEW'"
fi
done
# [...]
# TODO: handle other desktop environments
exec /snap/bin/firefox "$@"
I'd classify that as malware.Holy shit, that's fucked up
yup discovered this on my server yesterday. needed something on there so just did sudo apt install blahblahblah and then come to find the little ubuntu fucker installed a snap of it.
I really should have gone with another distro for my server but meh i'm too lazy to fix it now.
I'm not sure the pushing snap over established flatpak thing holds up, snap was in the wild before flatpak was announced.
Bloated container format that has many issues running software, somehow ignores system settings when it wants to and has a propriatary backend controlled by Canonical. Flatpaks are much better imo.
So Ubuntu in human form looks like one of Saddam Hussain's decoys? Interesting.
That is the original from? I'm guessing some look alike competition.
I'd love to use that as a meme template.
I wish I knew. I just found this meme on findthatmeme.com
Someone correct me if Iβm wrong here but Ubuntu is based off of Debian, therefore Ubuntu based distros are actually Debian based?
Or do they all have the same snap integration like Ubuntu does?
Ubuntu is Debian based yes. Not all ubuntu-based comes with snap (for example Mint). Sometimes I think "why are there so many different distros? We only need like five of them", but then, sometimes I think it's a strength, each distro exploring a new direction to see what works.
To follow up, how come e.g. mint decides to base their distro on Ubuntu rather than Debian?
https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_gigi.php
"LMDE 7 is based on Debian 13 Trixie. Make sure to read the Debian release notes."
Back in the day, ubuntu used to be the most user friendly distro. Linux for humans. It has a faster release cycle by not following stable debian releases. It had hardware support that you had to jump through hoops in debian to get. A great community. It made sense to base mint on ubuntu.
That's about where things were when I started using Mint about 11 years ago. Ubuntu has kind of strayed from that obvious choice to hand to newbies. Mint has been sitting around saying "No, we're not doing that, because it's user hostile" on anything from Gnome to Snap.
We only need like five of them
We only need one. And that's Arch.
Do you think you would have that opinion if you ran arch on mission critical production servers for a couple of years?
Well it was a joke, but it is a myth that Arch is unstable.
Well, for the sake of clarity, lets separate stability and reliability? Stability means unchanging. Reliable means it won't crash or behave in unexpected ways.
lets separate stability and reliability
And how do you propose we do that? Is reliability not dependent on stability?
Stability means unchanging
No, it means how stable something is. Literally.
Reliable means it won't crash or behave in unexpected ways
Funny, that's how most folks around here describe stability.
You're just using words to be honest.
If you have a better word for the concept of unchanging functionality and interfaces, I'm open to using that in this context. In describing distros, I've only come across the word stable for this. Reliable is a wider concept to me, and also includes being relatively free of bugs. A stable distro can still be buggy, if it's the same bugs tomorrow as yesterday.
Now you're just using more words, which means you're either a bot or you've lost your train of thought. You're rambling.
What is your actual point here?
You wrote "It is a myth that arch is unstable". Arch, being rolling release, is by definition changing. This is, imho, the opposite of stable. This is why it's important to use precise words. I have no interest in continuing this discussion since you don't seem to argue in good faith.
So, rolling release means Arch is ever changing, thus its unstable? You forget that other distros still change - with bigger, less regular updates which are often more disruptive and just as dangerous.
There is truth in saying bleeding edge causes problems but that's down to the user, not Arch. Arch assumes that the user knows how to prevent a cluster fuck.
And, there are ways to mitigate such a cluster fuck. Arch LTS, update less frequently, avoid AUR etc.
In the end tho its just easier to neg on Arch.
Are you assuming that's news to me? What's your point?