If you're maga ~~and a star trek fan~~ then you're just a fucking idiot.
FTFY
this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2025
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They liked Trek before the lead poisoning rotted their brains. Now they're stuck liking it, and there's no amount of cognitive dissonance that can compete with their mental gymnastics.
Fascism is a lot like dementia. I've lost people to both, and it felt less total when their brains were physically disintegrating.
I mean yes, obviously, but just liking a show doesn't mean you have to agree with the economics or politics within the show. Imagine extrapolating this viewpoint onto Game of Thrones.
Game of thrones is pretty explicitly about "basically all of these people are bastards and even the like two who aren't at least a little bastardy are in a fucked up context and just kinda trying and still do horrible shit because in a setting like that, morality isn't, like, compatible." I can think of like two characters who aren't m9rally compromised, and one of them wishes he could stay dead.
Star trek is explicitly Utopian. Even the darker and edgier spinoff or the irreverent comedy spinoff are still at least partially about this. The episodes are mostly explorations of morality, explicitly, argued between characters like a god damn Socratic dialogue! The characters regularly monologue about it, to the point it being anvilicious and a little corny is one of the things people bring up as a criticism!
You don't have to be 100% on board to enjoy yourself, but, like; you gotta be adjacent.
Not necessarily but there is an INSANE level of discordance between liking a show about diversity, inclusion, differences in others being celebrated, trying to avoid violence, acceptance, etc and then supporting Gul Dukat. I just don't understand what they like about TOS if they hate the messages in it.
I find a huge amount of the media I enjoy has messages embedded in it that I disagree with. As an easy example, The Dark Knight incorporated a pretty clear defense of the war on terror's erosion of civil liberties. Pretty good viewing experience, though.
So it would not confuse me to find a regressive minded person who enjoyed Star Trek despite disagreeing with it. What's bizarre is that what I end up encountering instead are regressive people who insist that they love Star Trek and that they've always agreed with its messaging until recently. Either they're lying or they are inconceivably media illiterate. Maybe they're all bots, because I really can't understand that level of delusion.
and that they’ve always agreed with its messaging until recently.
I actually get this one. Someone else opined on lead poisoning, but I really think it's just the overton window shift, propaganda from fox news, and social groupthink. The overton window has definitely been shifting right since reagan (and probably since fdr, but I'm not old enough to remember what that time was like). As our general culture became more extreme, fox news changed as well. Not only was it covering republican/conservative foolishness with palatable assholes, but now it's pushing the stuff that was never said out loud.
Combine all that with the way that politics has now become entrenched, and increasingly your social surroundings are dictated by political leanings, AND that the extremists are the most likely to be vocal, people are being pulled into ever more extreme views by dint of not wanting to cause a commotion and then slowly acquiescing to the views. I think we've all seen several of the 'how did my parents become fascists?' questions on various lemmy communities. People who may once have not wanted 'those types' nearby but would have stopped and helped them if they saw them stranded on the side of the road have now shifted into rabid hate, and would throw something as they passed.
I can totally see someone who once thought the first interracial kiss on star trek was silly, and not for them, but were otherwise okay with it now spitting venom at the actors/directors/writers/producers for daring to foist such horrors on them and **the kids (, ooooohh!!!!!!) on tv.
I mean, I get it. Because if you look at it a certain way, it’s about an all-powerful military ship captained by a White Human Male saving the ‘savage’ (pale-skinned often human-looking) alien cultures and beating up those troublemaking dark-skinned aliens (and monstrous-looking ones) who are never going to act civilized because it’s just in their blood, so they can’t help themselves, don’cha know.
Admittedly it was a bit more obvious in the original series, but still. Unfortunately, while Star Trek is a wonderful example of a utopian post-scarcity culture that comes together despite its differences, it’s also a good example of unconscious bias making its way into art. I doubt the creators, Roddenberry especially, set out purposely to write things that way, but the biases he grew up around still crept in.
I consider the Culture books to be another example; despite the author talking about how members of the Culture are so unconcerned with sexuality or norms that they often even swap genders because they feel like it, none of the protagonists are anything less than Manly Men or Beautiful Women In Makeup. You never meet a MC who’s a genderswapped person, or even a guy in a dress.
Hmm, now that you mention it, I don't specifically remember much about the main characters. They were all sort of 'vehicles' for the plot. Buuuuuuuut I do know there were 'other' perspectives, as in the one male-presenting protagonist who used a culture gun to blow up a ship in order to save his lover from the evil mafia/gang leader. Said lover was also definitely male.
Okay, shit. I just went and read the summary of the short story. The protagonist was a female-to-male, with a male lover. So congratulations on getting that wrong.
Leaving aside for the moment that a lot of the protagonists are deliberately chosen to be from outside the Culture proper specifically to give an outsider's perspective there's definitely a lot of pov characters that talk about how they felt like gender swapping that decade and such.
Steve Shives has a good video why conservatives like star trek. Starfleet is after all a hierarchical, (para) military organization
It’s suspicious how you never see any art in the corridors. I suppose anyone caught with blu-tac is thrown through the airlock.
I'm sorry but no way in fuck would I ever want art put up in the corridors of a starship. We've already got rocks falling from the damn ceiling when shit gets bad. I don't need the Mona Lisa flying off from some gravitic disturbance and chopping me in the neck.
Murals might be nice
The E-D should definitely have random crayon scribbles on the walls at a minimum.
On deck 12, every day is Picard Day!
Thats just what big pastel and beige want you to think
Jellico wasn’t a badmiral.
He merely a midmiral
I’ve never heard of anyone saying they hate progressive things on nu Trek because they’re MAGA. They blame the writers and the producers. Like I liked the gay relationship and the non binary characters on Discovery. I thought, that’s what makes Trek what it is. Diversity and representation. The writing might have dropped off a bit after the first couple seasons, but I still liked the show, and loved the characters.
I knew a few people who hated the Klingons in DSC S1 because they were meant to be a direct correlation to MAGA fucks. Execs even said as much. They got hyper salty. But yeah most people dogwhistle to high hell about the diversity on the show. My favorite are the people who complain about Adira having a come out moment not because they got to come out but because "It shouldn't have mattered in the future". Nevermind the fact that they were raised on an isolationist as fuck Earth while having a squid inside of them and having to hide that and queer folk not really being able to logic through that and yadda yadda yadda. Just so stupid.
Right — they shouldn’t have had to come out in the future, but the final frontier is made in a Hollywood basement like the Red Hot Chili Peppers song said.
People also say Frieren can’t be autistic because sites an elf. But she’s written by a human to represent autism.
Fantasy can and should get away from our problems to show us the best of what we can be and how wet could be living but it still has to represent us as a people, too.
Agreed but my point was they're fucking stupid because even in universe it works. By that point in the future, Earth was isolationist as hell and attacking people from Jupiter because they didn't know better. Just lashed out without opening a dialogue. Super hostile towards anyone, shoving Starfleet HQ out of Earth and closing their borders to everyone. Now you've got a kid who's been raised in this environment with one massive thing that's different to everyone else, a trill inside of them. They've gotta hide that constantly. How much of themselves do they have to hide on top of that too? Because if they asked to be called 'they/them' instead, would that bring more scrutiny? Would people start investigating? Find out they're different? Etc. The terrorized mind of someone on the run not wanting to trust others and making it a big deal makes perfect sense.
But even then, there's a real world phenomenon with queer folks who come out in accepting environments. They expect it to be a big deal so if everyone is accepting they think that they weren't understood. They can often come out multiple times to their parents because they don't think they were believed because it wasn't that big deal to their parents that it was to them.
Oh yeah, and the fact that almost every single fuckin' person who I've seen say that has been a cis straight person. They have literally no frame of mind to ever be able to argue it but they still want to say it "doesn't make sense" for a queer person to have a moment like that. I want to hit them. Hard.
You got me. Cis and straight. But I appreciate the detailed response because, you're right. We don't have the frame of mind. So how can one hope to be an ally with something they don't understand? The answer is communication. And, of course, keeping an open mind.
Also hitting. Hitting can be a part of it between consenting adults.
I want to preface this by saying that I'm a hetero cis dude, I bruise easily, and I didn't watch DIS that far, but Trek has historically worked best with allegory rather than just transplanting today's issues into the future. Having Adira openly be non-binary with nobody caring and come out as a joined human feels like it would work as the traditional allegorical approach. That's essentially what they did in Rejoined, after all.
That said, subtlety wasn't exactly DISCO's strength and I am, again, a hetero cis dude. And times change so maybe that approach just doesn't work well anymore.
Trek has historically
I don't really care though. Trek is not forced into the mould of the past and TV has changed. Moreover, allegory only was able to work because the discussion wasn't a constant lingering conversation. With the world hating trans folks, being more obvious with that acceptance will never be a bad thing. Making people feel accepted will never be a bad thing.
This isn't about y'all as cis straight people. Like... This actually frustrates me to an extent because it's people who can't understand what it's like having an opinion on something they can never understand and minimalizing it. It has nothing to do with y'all.
That all being said, there have been numerous times in Trek that a character has been extremely nervous or upset about a internal truth only to reveal it to someone else and they don't care. Really don't understand why Adira needed to be different. We queer people don't want it to be a big deal. Our lives and identities are not a source of entertainment. Neither is Adira's. They're just non-binary which is why it was like a 3 minute scene that wasnt a big deal. If Stamets was able to just be gay without it being a big deal (the representation were dying for instead of being a clown for entertainment) then why can't Adira?
this isn't about you. This actually frustrates me because it's people who can't understand having an opinion they can never understand and minimizing it
This is some real shit, and it's very frustrating. But have you considered:
as a normal sexualitied normal gendered person (yes I'm very woke, thank you), I feel attacked and you are a bigot. You should be just a fun background thing I never have to think about, but you're telling me I can't do something. That makes you worse than Hitler. You're the same as the last bad guy I thought about! In fact I'm going to get a swastika tattooed over my entire body just because of how mean and bad you are!
I don’t really care though. Trek is not forced into the mould of the past and TV has changed. Moreover, allegory only was able to work because the discussion wasn’t a constant lingering conversation. With the world hating trans folks, being more obvious with that acceptance will never be a bad thing. Making people feel accepted will never be a bad thing.
Which is why I was surprised when I learned Discovery made a point of it. TOS never made a point about there being a Russian on the bridge or a black woman being the third officer. TNG... honestly wasn't all that progressive for the '80s and '90s. Probably Berman's fault. DS9 never only brought up Jadzia's pansexuality in regards to Kira being comparatively close-minded, and even then regarding specific species rather than gender or sex; nobody gave a flying fuck that Dax was into someone who was currently a woman that one time, just that they had previously been married. Sisko being black similarly wasn't worthy of comment until he personally experienced the 1950s. VOY had half the command staff, including the captain, as women without a single comment. And DIS has previously shown Stamet's and Culber's relationship as completely ordinary. Part of Trek is showing us at our best, so why the change?
If Stamets was able to just be gay without it being a big deal (the representation were dying for instead of being a clown for entertainment) then why can’t Adira?
The relationship between Stamets and Culber was one of my favorite parts of Disco's first season until they fridged Culber. It was cute watching Stamets go from his usual prickly self to just melting whenever he talked about Culber. Culber was woefully underdeveloped until the second season, though.
Which is why I was surprised when I learned Discovery made a point of it. TOS never made a point about there being a Russian on the bridge or a black woman being the third officer.
I think there's a big disconnect here that just was overlooked. Not saying you did it on purpose or anything, it's just easy to not see the differences, especially with the difference in time. You're right in that they never made it a big deal about those specific characters (granted they sort of did with moments like Lincoln and Uhura) but it's because the story didn't need to make it a big deal to get the point across. They're all visible minorities. Uhura is black, Sulu is Japanese and the Russian guy sounds like a Russian. But sexuality is not visible. At least not unless you make it so on purpose.
Adira was being called she/her for the first few episodes they were there because of that reason. No one is ever going to know that they're non-binary unless they say it. They then had a singular fucking line where they said I prefer they/them. Like... this is why I got frustrated before because that is going out of its way to not make a point of it. There was a singular scene with a singular line. It's maddening to hear people say that they drew any attention at all when they went out of their way to give it as little attention as possible. The character had already been introduced and to reflect someone accepting who they are (with both the trill and their sexuality) they had a 30 second scene (I just timed it). This is why so many people, like myself, get upset when people say that this was not needed. It absolutely was and by denying that type of representation in the series and denying the chance of someone to be able to come out utterly denies that chance of representation for people watching it. It feels really shitty. Again, I'm not trying to say you are intentionally doing this or that you are at all but that this is how it feels to people like myself. People who have been watching Star Trek for years and finally get a chance to see ourselves on the screen only for people to come in and argue about whether or not the first time someone like us ever seen on screen is appropriate when they're not even part of that community.
The relationship between Stamets and Culber was one of my favorite parts of Disco’s first season until they fridged Culber. It was cute watching Stamets go from his usual prickly self to just melting whenever he talked about Culber. Culber was woefully underdeveloped until the second season, though.
So, fun fact. Culber was always intended to die in Season 1 and be resurrected in Season 2. Not something I personally like or agree with but I do find it interesting. That's why Culber didn't get much in the run of character development until he was brought back, in which case they overpivoted to focusing on him a lot more than Stamets during Season 2 for that stuff. The one thing that did bother me was Stamets being completely incapable of losing people over and over again. Like having a hard time dealing with it, sure, but he took it way too hard way too many times. Thank fuck they retconned a part of it at the end of Season 3. He was staring at Burnham like he hated her for blasting him out of the airlock to protect the ship but Season 4 he's just business as usual.
Adira was being called she/her for the first few episodes they were there because of that reason. No one is ever going to know that they’re non-binary unless they say it. They then had a singular fucking line where they said I prefer they/them. Like… this is why I got frustrated before because that is going out of its way to not make a point of it. There was a singular scene with a singular line. It’s maddening to hear people say that they drew any attention at all when they went out of their way to give it as little attention as possible.
Ah, I actually thought it was a longer, more emotional scene from the way I've seen it talked about, or even the focus of an episode. A quick comment is basically exactly how I would have expected Trek to handle that. I mean, yeah, gender isn't always visible, especially for non-binary folks, so it needs to be mentioned.
So, fun fact. Culber was always intended to die in Season 1 and be resurrected in Season 2. Not something I personally like or agree with but I do find it interesting.
I really didn't like Berg and Harberts as showrunners. They had a serious penchant for melodrama and I found it suspicious that they claimed everything viewers didn't like was Fuller's fault, even in episodes produced long past when Fuller left. And that was before we found out how they were treating the staff. Killing a character for shock value while intending to revive them later very much sounds like them.
Ah, I actually thought it was a longer, more emotional scene from the way I’ve seen it talked about, or even the focus of an episode. A quick comment is basically exactly how I would have expected Trek to handle that. I mean, yeah, gender isn’t always visible, especially for non-binary folks, so it needs to be mentioned.
Oh nah, it was extremely short. Take a look here. Adira first starts coming out at 20 seconds and at 48 seconds it cuts to a different scene of Culber and Hugh talking about Adira. Just using they/them pronouns with no big deal. Grey, Adira's Trill boyfriend is a trans man too. There's a couple of lines that he says that are off hand references about being trans. Clearly there to be like "Trans representation!" but not enough to be like "MASSIVE BIG DEAL!" Especially because Grey's whole experience was radically different from Adira's.
I really didn’t like Berg and Harberts as showrunners. They had a serious penchant for melodrama and I found it suspicious that they claimed everything viewers didn’t like was Fuller’s fault, even in episodes produced long past when Fuller left. And that was before we found out how they were treating the staff. Killing a character for shock value while intending to revive them later very much sounds like them.
Part of it was shock value from them but it was also talked about by, I think it was, Michelle Paradise. They wanted to use it for a variety of different things. It was a bit tone deaf for sure but it wasn't just the chucklefucks. And yeah... almost nothing was Fuller's fault. Especially when Fuller's whole vision of Discovery was radically different at the start. He wanted American Horror Story but Star Trek. That's why the registry ID is 1031. 10-31. Halloween. Dude has a hard on for scary stuff. Got some tastes of that with the tardigrade/Glenn episode (that was great) and some psychological horror with Mudd timelooping murder and the Agonizer booths looking more terrifying than they ever have though.