this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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[–] Lifecoach5000@lemmy.world 182 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Well I’m glad to hear more people stating the obvious. Well done Bern.

[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 84 points 2 years ago (7 children)

By only condemning human rights violations by Hamas and tacitly approving bigger war crimes by Israel, our American and European leaders are choosing sides in a very obvious and hypocritical manner.

We are unnecessarily antagonizing a billion Muslims and making ourselves a target for terrorism by blindly supporting an unjust apartheid state.

I don't want to on the side of Hamas, but I also don't want to be on the side of Israel.

Why drag us into this?

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 54 points 2 years ago (6 children)

USA and rest of the Western world has enabled Israel for the last 70 years while the Palestinians have been systematically disenfranchised and radicalized. No one put in geniune effort to de-escalate this situation and now shit has hit the fan.

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[–] Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world 77 points 2 years ago (5 children)

A refreshing take for sure, and even though Bernie is Jewish he sees this cruel regime for what it really is. There are no excuses for harming innocent civilians, ever!

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 43 points 2 years ago (2 children)

A lot of jewish actually call this out as a genocide, its just the world leader playing their politics while the people are getting murdered on the ground.

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[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 29 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 152 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Religion has not done a lot of good in the world lately. Turns out the "my way or the highway" approach creates nothing but death and violence.

[–] ComradeKhoumrag 62 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Religion, and British imperialism

[–] deft@ttrpg.network 15 points 2 years ago

The Roman empire's spawn. Western imperialism and christianity/islam.

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 92 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Shh, Bernie, corporate America might blacklist you from ever working for them.

[–] boyi@lemmy.sdf.org 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I (a non-US) watched Hillary in a documentary about her saying Bernie has never worked (in corporate/professional settings) all his life. If that's true, I don't think it matters to him.

[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Yeah, you’re right. My comment was a weak attempt a humor.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago

I think that fact makes your joke even stronger.

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[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

It’s a joke. They are saying Bernie will never be a paid off tool of the corporations. Which he would never want to be anyway. And that’s why he lost the nomination.

[–] endhits@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Hillary is a very transparent corporate goon. She's never done anything out of the currently accepted status quo. She's entirely interested in what benefits her political career.

[–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 75 points 2 years ago

Bernie being on the right side of history as usual.

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 71 points 2 years ago (2 children)

At least someone has common sense

[–] Chariotwheel@kbin.social 69 points 2 years ago

I mean, Bernie Sanders always had that. That's a good part of why people liked him.

See him arguing against various wars where he stood among few against the many and was so far right on these takes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_om-x323Em0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZo97nFS9GU

One of the comments under the videos puts it well:

For every wrong move america has made in the last 40 years, there is a video of Bernie arguing against it.

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[–] iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world 63 points 2 years ago (23 children)

It's genocide. It's hate for hates sake. All for the benefit of a few rich old men.

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[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 59 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (11 children)

I just got done watching PBS News hour Brooks and Capehart segment and, wow... Talk about completely one-sided. As though viewing this event in isolation without recognition to the broader historical context. Basically drooling over Netanyahu.

When will people learn that radicalization doesn't just manifest out of thin air...?

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 31 points 2 years ago (41 children)

If a law carries no punishment, is it even a law?

Seems like more a set of guidelines that people are free to ignore whenever it suits them.

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[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 26 points 2 years ago (19 children)

Even when international powers would force the place into two countries the fighting will never stop. Because both don't have a country and want one and both ground their claim on religion. The religions are incompatible. Hamas consider Jews as the enemy of Allah quite literally.

Jews were pushed out of countries and killed and therefore promised land. So land was simply taken from a torn place that couldn't protect itself. Palestinians are also pushed out of countries and killed and want their land back. The Brits just left them with this conflict because they couldn't handle it. And now probably no one will be able to stop Israel anymore because they were given the better hand in terms of weapons.

Asking either side to stop won't work. Ban religion instead. They could both live there.

[–] bemenaker@lemmy.world 36 points 2 years ago (12 children)

Before 1943, both Muslims and Jews lived in Palestine in peace, but as immigration increased, so did tension. It wasn't about religion, it was about land.

https://www.cjpme.org/fs_007

There were plenty of Jewish leagues, sports, ect, called the Palestinian Jewish (league name).

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[–] MonkRome@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

So land was simply taken from a torn place that couldn’t protect itself.

I mostly agree, but 'taken' is somewhat reductive, it was more like a forced partition. Jews already lived there and were already emigrating there en masse long before the end of WWII, Zionism ramped up in the late 1800's, 60 years before the Jewish state. There was already violence in that area through a lot of early Zionism and a civil war in the few years leading up to partition.

It would be like if the UK decided tomorrow to give 35% of the US to Hispanic Americans despite them only being ~20% of the population, it just a weird way to split up a country that is bound to cause conflict. (Jews were 30% of the population of Israel/Palestine when it was split in half) No one actually expected Israel to survive the wars at the start, as you said they just wanted to push the 'problem' onto someone else. If you're a displaced population what do you do if no one wants to take you and your under threat of death most places you go? It's important to remember that Jews were pretty much universally hated everywhere in the world prior to WWII, they didn't have many prospects for peace.

I suspect however that if partition never happened, there would still be ethnic conflict in that area and it would have just shifted who was the oppressed group. Which really highlights the real problem as you implied, the inability for many religious communities to live side by side. Look at India, Nigeria, Ireland, etc. Whenever you have 2 prominent religions in large enough numbers living closely together their fanaticism often doesn't allow a shared sense of national unity. Banning religion is a great way to make religion popular again though, not the best way to get rid of it. A secular education is the best way to get rid of religion.

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[–] samson@aussie.zone 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh yes of course banning religion is the obvious answer that will lead to harmony. Even in your magical world where religion doesn't exist this conflict would then be on racial lines.

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[–] btaf45@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (3 children)

How come nobody is mentioning how President George Bush is the guy who fucked up Gaza?

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-day-that-bush-took-gaza/

The Day That Bush Took Gaza

April 25, 2004

President Bush’s embrace of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s plan for unilateral Israeli disengagement from the Gaza Strip is going to turn out to be more than a mere gesture. Sharon’s radical initiative would evacuate all Israeli settlements and military positions, unilaterally, within the next 18 months...de facto responsibility for what happens in Gaza once Israel withdraws will fall to the United States. That’s the hidden meaning in the president’s letter of assurance to Sharon saying that the United States will lead an international effort to build the capacity and will of Palestinian institutions to fight terrorism and prevent the areas from which Israel withdraws from posing a threat.

One wonders whether Bush really appreciates what he is getting himself and the United States into. Having trumpeted his support for an independent Palestinian state, he is now taking on responsibility for ensuring that the Gaza mini-state created by Israel’s withdrawal does not turn into a failed terrorist state.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 29 points 2 years ago (6 children)

I don't agree with this guy's hot take on things. He's arguing that because Bush supported the Israeli Prime Minister's idea of pulling out of Gaza, Bush is somehow taking full responsibility for Palestine and has all the blame for Hamas winning the majority vote in Gaza in 2007.

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[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

How come nobody is mentioning how President George Bush is the guy who fucked up Gaza?

Maybe because it's a bit of a stretch

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