this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2025
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As Torvalds pointed out in 2019, is that while some major hardware vendors do sell Linux PCs – Dell, for example, with Ubuntu – none of them make it easy. There are also great specialist Linux PC vendors, such as System76, Germany's TUXEDO Computers, and the UK-based Star Labs, but they tend to market to people who are already into Linux, not disgruntled Windows users. No, one big reason why Linux hasn't taken off is that there are no major PC OEMs strongly backing it. To Torvalds, Chromebooks "are the path toward the desktop."

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[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I've said this before and I'll say it again. What Linux needs is a straight forward setup. Yes Mint is normally super easy to install but can also randomly just not work due to what is often a very simple issue but one obscure enough that the inexperienced (like me) will take hours or even days of trying different solutions until they find it. I love how light linux is but an extra half a gigabyte in the setup to just innately include solutions to the most common issues would pull in way more people than it would push away.

[–] Joelk111@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

Linux, in my experience, has been way less painful to set up than Windows. It takes like 1/4 of the time, and I don't end up with half my shit in One Drive because I misclicked.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

I've bought several Dell laptops over the last 20 years, the Windows install on them was strangled in it's crib every time, and it was still miles cheaper than these other vendors.

If anyone needs to have Linux preinstalled on their computer and can't click through the 3 steps in a typical Linux install nowadays, they probably should use something like a SpeakNSpell instead of a computer.

[–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 14 points 6 hours ago (5 children)

Preface: I am a Linux user

The Linux desktop needs to not require users to dig through config files to enable features that both windows and Mac have working by default. Fingerprint sensors, audio interfaces, broken bootloaders that you have to fix yourself. Requiring people to ever use a command line even once will keep people on Windows as the dominant platform.

Every time I have to look at a Linux forum to figure out why something isn't working and the answers are run these commands I am instantly reminded that this is the exact thing keeping Windows mainstream.

Driver support still isn't perfect. Software support as well. Linux needs to ship out of the box running exe files in compatibility layers. Linux needs to adopt executable installers for software packages that can be downloaded on the web. If Linux wants to be the way people use computers, Linux needs to fit the mould that windows has built for the people who have used it for the last 40 years.

Doing anything differently is enough of a deterrent for 90% of computer users. And of those 90%, 75% of them will give up immediately trying to fix anything that doesn't work and either call someone else or decide it's broken and do nothing.

Linux is incredibly powerful and I believe it should be the way we run computers, but I get exactly why it isn't.

[–] ADTJ@feddit.uk 1 points 1 hour ago

You are completely right.

I do also get why the run these commands is a thing, because it's usually faster and also is distro / desktop environment agnostic.

Why would someone want to write separate guides for Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon etc. when one or two commands will suffice? But on the flip side, my family and friends will see a scary looking command and immediately be put off.

I feel it's getting a lot better since more apps are just in the browser or electron apps, there's way way less to actually configure for most end users. The type of people put off by commands generally won't go digging through the settings anyway.

I do wish there were a proper GUI for configuring GRUB though. Any that I've ever found seemed to fall out of date very quickly.

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

Okay so step one is to take GNOME and throw it into the trash where it belongs, and replace it with KDE which is a complete DE and not a bunch of plugins disguised in a trench coat of bash scripts.

Step two is to recommend a distro that targets both user quality and latest stable kernel releases for the most updated modules (Like Fedora or OpenSUSE)

Linux needs to adopt executable installers for software packages that can be downloaded on the web

Is the wrong problem because that's what Flatpak accomplishes without creating distro dependency hell. Regressing to .run and .appimage files for everything is why windows updates suck total ass, and it would nuke one of Linux's most killer features.

Users are already used to an appstore on mobile, I can personally guarantee you that they have no trouble getting accustomed to a desktop app installer, especially since they find it so much easier to search and click install without opening a bunch of websites. Since it shows both package manager and flatpak apps, they don't even have to be aware of the backend system.

--

The only thing holding back linux at this current point in time is honestly just vendors using it standard in consumer hardware. The dependency hell issue was resolved years ago by both huge improvements in package repos and the widespread support of Flatpak. The leftover baggage from X11 has been replaced by Wayland, which finally became viable around end of 2023. Even stuff like pulseaudio has been replaced by pipewire to handle every edge cases scenario.

I would not have said the same thing 2 years ago. The evidence is that the linux desktop user base is growing at an increasing rate. All they need is to hit a critical share (6-7%) for bigger vendors and OEMs to follow.

The good news is, as mentioned, there are a lot of vendors that are starting to do this. Valve's steam machine by itself could be enough to add another 10 million users if they play their cards right.

My other anecdotal evidence is that I successfully changed several of my friends and family members over to Fedora just last year because I finally found it viable to throw at any former Windows user.

The only dissatisfaction I caused was one "dependent" person who couldn't play Fortnite (the only game in their library that didn't work), which I audaciously told it would be possible in 2026 via waydroid/lepton (valve plz dont fail me lol).

[–] hdsrob@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I feel much of this, especially the installer situation right now.

I've setup and maintained a number of Linux servers from scratch, and I'm used to installing / updating / maintaining server software (via bash / SSH), but desktop kills me.

I didn't think my Windows setup would be that crazy to get working, but VMWare Workstation, and Splashtop have both been killers (and good triple monitor support to some degree). Steam has been 50/50 for games for me, but I'm running an older NVidia card, so that's probably my issue.

I started with Open Suse, and liked the OS quite well, but could never get past the errors installing and configuring VMWare (I develop in Windows inside a couple of VMWare images, and will for the next decade at least), so fast / stable VMWare support is key to moving off of Windows.

I also couldn't get Splashtop running: I need remote access to my machine when outside of the house, and to client machines quite often, so need two different apps installed. There's also no LogMeIn desktop app for Linux, so that becomes very painful (one of our dealers uses LMI instead of Splashtop).

After a week of that, I paved the disk and loaded Kubuntu, figuring that the better support for those packages would help. I did manage to get VMWare and Splashtop Business installed but everything feels unstable, and there have been lots of issues (third monitor is often black, had to disable 3d acceleration in VMWare, Solarr never seems to see my mouse, can't browse shared NTFS drives), and have to re-sign VMWare modules every time the OS updates.

I've been using Windows for decades, largely without any issue, and would like to move, but it's been problematic enough for me to put the entire thing on pause, knowing that I'm going to have to start all over again and burn several more days trying to get a base setup working.

[–] r3tr0_97@ani.social 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

I agree, but only until the part you mention how people should install their software. And that's simply because I don't think that people should install random .exes or .debs from the internet, because repositories are:

  1. Easier to find software within: you've got a one-stop-shop for all/most of your most important software
  2. They're inherently more secure as the software should (emphasis on should) be checked by maintainers or the people who upload software onto them
  3. Software updates are much easier to enroll, as they are treated as system updates
[–] BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago

Yeah I'd say a large percentage of users don't even know what a repository is, have no idea what a maintainer does, and wouldn't even refer to their 'apps' as software.

You're asking a lot of of people who don't give a fuck.

[–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

There's another thing that frustrates me about Linux and its various philosophies. Should I be allowed to do what I want with my software? Or should the machine protect me from myself? It seems at conflict with itself to allow you to do stuff like delete system files without much more than a warning while also having protections in place as you describe. Windows tried doing this exact thing with S Mode and people get pissed about windows not allowing them to do whatever they want.

I fundamentally disagree that users should not be allowed to install whatever they want from wherever they want.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 4 points 3 hours ago

I fundamentally disagree that users should not be allowed to install whatever they want from wherever they want.

You can install whatever dodgy file from wherever you want. I (and many others) don't think that should be the default

[–] arararagi@ani.social 7 points 6 hours ago

Basically this, it's why it has worked from that gaming side since just installing steam and running a game is now a painless process thanks to proton.

[–] llama@lemmy.zip 9 points 7 hours ago

Plugging in a flash drive and having it just work would be a start. Linux beginners don't care about the plight with exfat support.

[–] MashedTech@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Also, software vendors need to be able to build and target one thing instead of 10 and many other packaging types, built types and test platforms. And people are still arguing, flatpak, appimage, snaps etc. Instead of shit just working well and reliably.

I've ran Linux since 10th grade. Now, at work, I use a MacBook. I can get my Dev shit done, I can get my business work done. I can get work done. I want to get my work done and move on with my life.

The way I run Linux nowadays is by having a second laptop for the love of the game.

[–] webkitten@piefed.social 19 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”

Please don't associate Linux with a close-source proprietary neutered web browser owned by an ad company.

[–] MashedTech@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago

The average Joe doesn't care.

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Exactly. I wouldn't touch a chromebook with a barge pole. Who wants Google to watch absolutely everything you do?

[–] MashedTech@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

You won't, but the average Joe will.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Average Joe lives in ignorance and doesnt know enough to care.

and theres also a good chance they don't care enough to know.. until shit hits the fan of course.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 0 points 4 hours ago

I'm lost for what point you're trying to make, in relation to this topic and article.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 8 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Nothing is needed for me, I already replaced Windows. It's been a while actually.

[–] Mrkawfee@feddit.uk 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Same. Im a total noob and there are challenges to using Linux but Microsoft are assholes who treat customers like shit so screw them

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Welcome to the family. 🐧🫂

[–] CommanderShepard@lemmy.world 29 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

Like mentioned in the article, another issue is that there are very few offerings of computers with Linux preinstalled in normal computer stores.

You know how a normal average persons buys new laptops? They go to such store and look at the prices and buy one according to how much they want to spend. The advanced buyers might consult their more tech-savvy acquaintances. Stuff like "Just install Linux", is beyond concept comprehension for a lot of people, even if they heard about Linux at all.

All to say is that it's not like they can't understand these concepts if you explain them (people are clever), but they should care about them in the first place.

Edit: typo

[–] arararagi@ani.social 2 points 6 hours ago

Ironically, the laptops that do come with Linux are always the shittiest stuff like that Lenovo distro.

[–] restingboredface@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Agreed. We are in an age where tech is spoonfed to people with slick UIs and automated installs. Linux needs that--some kind of easy onramp to get people comfortable and familiar with it--in order to have a chance of getting broad acceptance. It's not particularly accessible even for people with a small amount of tech knowledge and skill.

I tried to set up mint on an old laptop recently and immediately hit a roadblock before I could even get an install going. I did some research and found some options to troubleshoot it but gave up because the guidance I found online was a bit more complex than I felt comfortable acting on.

I really want to try out Linux, but if someone like me (with some technology knowledge and comfort) still gets this easily tripped up on installing it, I can't imagine the average person taking the leap successfully.

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Lemme guess, Secure Boot prevented installation?

I think it was something like that, though its been about 6 weeks so Im a little fuzzy on it now. I was following a guide I'd found online and reached something different from what the guide said, so I aborted install to check on somethings and that apparently set something that when i tried to restart installation it kept throwing an error. Something about starting the installation without completing it messed something else up that I havent been able to fix. I spent an hour or so looking through stuff, even wiped the PC and it still wouldn't work. I've been meaning to go back to it but haven't gotten around to it.

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