this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2026
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Today I Learned

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Socialism for the elite but not for the masses?

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[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 29 points 3 days ago

I'm going to let you people in on a secret: The American military's support system is the very definition of socialism. Healthcare, shopping, housing, education all subsidized. You people literally use socialism to support your primary arm of anti-socialism.

[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 63 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Free Healthcare and and Higher education are the main reasons enlisted soldiers join the US military; both things that countries that aren't Empires offer to all their citizens.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 188 points 4 days ago (4 children)

During the first year of Obama's first term, with the push for the ACA, conservative pundit Bill Kristol got trapped by Jon Stewart into admitting the US government can run a first class health care program, but only for the soldiers because the rest of the public doesn't deserve it.

https://youtu.be/rRSZiWwiBuE

[–] ProfThadBach@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago

I just had a MRI on the VA's dime and if I would have gotten it with my insurance it would have cost me 2400 bucks. The VA paid a civilian hospital 98 dollars for the procedure. I paid nothing.

[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago (4 children)

First class? HAH!

Granted, my anecdote is more than 20 years old, but a simple blood test almost put me out because the intern taking my blood had to try 5 times, in two veins, just to get the few ml she needed, after exploding the first vein

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 65 points 4 days ago (4 children)

That can happen in privately run care, too. The point was more that a then-leading conservative admitted he doesn't actually believe that socialized health care can be of good quality, but the common people just don't deserve to have access to it.

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[–] LadyMeow@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 4 days ago (2 children)

If you want an opposite anecdote, the VA took pretty good care of my granddad, especially as he needed end of life care, so, I guess ymmv.

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[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

That can happen anywhere. I've had phlebotomists sink a needle without even feeling it, while others are butchers.

I ALWAYS ask, in a joking manner, if they've done this before, but I am actually serious. If they act like it's a dumb question, I can relax a bit, if they are young and aren't super confident, I'm on alert.

If they get it wrong the first time, I tell them they have one more chance, and then we're calling in someone else. And I mean it. I don't care if I hurt some young nurse's feelings over this. I respect nurses like crazy, and always defend them in strikes, wages, etc., but I'm not going to just let someone practice on me like I'm a cadaver. I can FEEL that, and it HURTS! Get it right, or get someone who can get it right.

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[–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 days ago

Honestly I haven't heard an American healthcare, active duty, va, or private that was good. Including my own experiences.

The insurance model, tons of regulatory capture, and low investment in quality or even availability makes it just kind of shit. Way too much time and money spent on avoiding helping people.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 91 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (8 children)

The military in general is like a complete socialist economy: socialized health care, home loan programs, car loan programs, banking, insurance, housing vouchers, tenant and homeowner protections, groceries at cost, retirement and pension, and to top it all off the thing itself is the country's largest jobs program.

[–] AquaTofana@lemmy.world 32 points 3 days ago (1 children)

My husband and I, who are both Enlisted, have been saying for years that the military is proof that a form of socialism CAN work in the US. It's not "true" socialism because we still have an owning class, but ffs, it's a goddamned start. And its not just Active Duty who gets taken care of. Its also dependents, veterans (to an extent), and retirees. So there is the proof that the model is scalable.

At this point, I honestly believe that the biggest reason reason the government won't let the US have free or even affordable Healthcare isn't solely because of profits. It's because they won't be able to dangle free healthcare over the heads of poor teens to get them to Enlist. Same thing with the pension for re-enlistments.

I feel like those two items are purposefully withheld from the public to keep the military stacked.

[–] laranis@lemmy.zip 8 points 3 days ago

Amazing insight. Thanks for sharing. Counterpoint: it can be both. And a third — they're giant pathological assholes. Trifecta of people getting screwed.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And all you have to do is kill whoever they tell you to.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

especially if you have 800bn funding it every year. half goes to contracters(which includes the stuff you mention) plus giving welfare to other countries instead of citizens.

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[–] Knightfox@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

To add to this, something I like to point out to people, but (for the US) only ~60% of military personnel are ever deployed. Of those 60% only 10-20% will ever see combat. To top that off ~25% of the military are actually civilian service members, people who work for the military but are not soldiers.

So in summary, for each soldier that sees combat there are:

  • ~6 deployed soldiers who will never see combat.
  • ~11 non-deployed soldiers who never will be.
  • ~6 civilian military staff who will probably never need to move for work.

Of these 24 people, all have access to the commissary, retirement and pension, top tier insurance, paid child care, up to 26 days of paid time off with 13 sick days and 11 fed holidays. The only things the military civilians don't get are the VA, loan programs, and special protections.

So unless you're a complete block head with no skills or talent your odds of joining the military and basically getting socialism with no risks is pretty high. Remember this the next time someone gets mouthy about respecting "the troops" or "serving their country," odds are they didn't do shit.

I used to work with a whole group of guys who their whole military career (20 years) was running a wastewater treatment plant on an Air Force base in the US, that's it.

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[–] supernicepojo@lemmy.world 110 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Its not just the commissary. The entire way the military works is functional communism. Housing is assigned by rank, is available to anyone currently in contract, as well as healthcare and obviously, work. Pay is rated by rank and not by position, a Physician assistant gets the same rank pay as a Lt working command staff in any other unit. There is no capitalism in the DoD at all not even under their procurement systems.

[–] darkdemize@sh.itjust.works 31 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Base pay may be the same, but there are several incentive pays available for various duties. Flight pay, sea pay, jump pay, hazardous duty pay, etc.

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[–] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago

Housing is assigned by rank, is available to anyone currently in contract

Not only that, but government owned housing is assigned not based on pay, rank, or whatever, but size of household. So an E-7 with no kids gets a 2 bedroom and an E-3 with three kids gets a four bedroom (depending on age/gender of the kids). So according to need.

[–] HellieSkellie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

The U.S. Military currently has a lot of problems with housing, feeding, and providing healthcare for service members. Check out USAG's hawaii barracks for example. There's a large number of lawsuits against the living conditions of family-housing. Dining Facilities that are intended and required to feed service members simply don't.

Until recently Service Members couldn't do anything if there was medical malpractice against them (and there was a LOT). And the act allowing medical malpractice suits was not retroactive, meaning everybody who served before 2020 was simply fucked.

Commissaries are (usually) genuinely good though. No complaints.

Understand that the government provided living conditions are not as good as you may be imagining.

Anyways here's my personal anecdotes to bitch about: Goodfellow AFB many years ago. Sewage was leaking into the barracks' (already shitty) Concho water pipes making it unsafe to drink and bathe. Lasted weeks. The water pipe above my room in particular was dripping onto our fridge and smelled like shit. I made a dumb fuckin gummy-bear funnel that diverted the leak into our sink because every single god damn person I asked to fix this problem said it wasn't their issue.

and here's the barracks room I was issued at my first duty station (that's all mold):

[–] supernicepojo@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Alright Airman, I, no We in your command staff have heard you! We want to do better…./s

Hawaii barracks has been complained about by everyone since…forever I think. The contaminated drinking water on bases is endemic. Moldy old barracks aside the family living conditions were always bad and only get worse with age and wear. I didnt mean to imply that anything was good about it, and the complaints definitely outweigh the compliments on military living with or without family accommodations. There is a lot of room for improvement, whats killer is that all the wrong people are acutely aware of the glaring issues.

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

The entire way the military works is functional communism. Housing is assigned by rank,

Uhh - that would be a 'bourgeois right', going Marx's 'Critique of the Gotha Programme'. Very much the opposite intended outcome.

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[–] klay1@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Housing is assigned by rank

Pay is rated by rank

Is there really a rank in communism? Who decides the details of a rank?

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 36 points 3 days ago (2 children)

So Mamdani's idea was not even new, and took it from the military? What was all that fuss about supposedly communist run groceries?

[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Because benefits people at the cost of corporations.

At least with DeCA there is a stone wall of needing to not die during service to access it. So it doesn't threaten corporations as much.

[–] cobalt32@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 days ago

There's also the fact that corporations greatly benefit from imperialism. You can't have imperialism without the military.

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[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 50 points 4 days ago (4 children)

It's amazing how having health care, housing, consistent employment, and a lot of support services also end up creating the best US school system. But the radical left is hell bent on destroying the world. \s

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago

The largest social program in human history is the US military.

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[–] klay1@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Do any of you guys know what communism or socialism really are?

This thread sounds like if they offer subsidies for goods, housing, school system and so on, then we can ignore you can only get in if they like you and they use the entire countries tax payer money to subsidize goods for themselves only. Must be socialism. We can ignore its about war.

If Socialism means collective ownership and social welfare, then where is the collective ownership in your examples? Many can't get in the US military, but pay for it.

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 54 points 4 days ago

Bud if you think US military members are the elite you are clueless.

[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

It's like the VA of grocery stores, or like the Medicare of health insurance, or the public schools of education, or the taxpayer-funded firefighters or judiciary or police or highways or ports or bridges or hydropower dams or the forest service or national parks or public health and science and technology research or NASA

LOL at the idea that we don't do this sort of thing all over the place

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 33 points 4 days ago

If you think the military personnel that use a commissary are "elite", you're sadly mistaken. Vast majority are enlisted personnel that are no better off than the average blue collar types.

[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 27 points 4 days ago (6 children)

This is hilariously out of touch with reality.

First off, how many redneck trailer park kids joined the military because of a paltry $3,000 signing bonus? The Bush administration scraped restrictions against felons after 9/11. Who, exactly, are the "elites" that shit in a bucket you light on fire once a week? Rich kid don't join the military.

Second, that's not how commissaries work at all. It's not socialism in any way. It's hyper-capitalist if anything.

A huge amount of resources are put into name brand items being shipped across the globe to lock in brand loyalty for life. It's not free either, only duty-free. No import costs. A $4 small pack of sour patch kids or $10 frozen 4-pack of frozen Jimmy Dean breakfast includes shipping costs. Containers from the States cost $80K+ to ship, which the commissary pays for. Every commissary is a business that operates as an independent business. Except for the ones managed by huge contacts to companies.

They're non-profit only because of host country laws about profits without import duties.

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But there are many in American soil that are significantly cheaper than Walmart and similar. Of course if a commissary is placed in a base in Okinawa, in the middle of the ocean on the other part of the globe, then stuff is much more expensive

[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 5 points 3 days ago

Right, so what you're missing here is that AAFES and NEXCOM are independent corporate entities under the DOD that are almost entirely self-funded (I would guess some basic admin elements are staffed by DOD staff or something very basic, but I'm not sure). That puts them into a weird category of company that is usually referred to as a parastatial corporation or "state-owned company" in most places outside the US. The US usually contracts out rather than have state-owned companies, as a limit to liability.

They're basically 100% independent entities with no taxpayer budget so they can operate with less bureaucracy and government requirements for how they spend their money and contract with vendors and contractors. AAFES has a civilian CEO. Their employees are not members of the military, they're civilians. It IS a non-profit, as they're also captured to only have a limited client base. Their goal is to break even and save money for things like buying a new meat cooler for when the ones they have break. Which means they get much easier taxes to deal with.

They key here is that they save money on things like real estate costs and import/export duties compared to Wal-Mart, but leverage the same corporate relationships. So taxpayer money isn't exactly going to commissaries, they're just not getting charged as much for facilities or utilities because they're leveraging military economies of scale. That does count as a subsidy in a sense, but it's not like they get cash from DOD to run any commissary.

It's not "socialism" in any sense of the term. It's a company store if anything - it's just the one version of this where the prices are not jacked up to exploit people.

You do know the UK and a few European countries also sometimes have commissaries on joint bases or diplomatic properties, right?

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[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Its more than a grocery store. I knew a guy who was buying german VCRs in the late 80's and early 90's and shipping them home. The german machines didn't have the copy protection circuit in them and would make perfect copies of any tape. The machines were all bought at cost from a US base's PX.

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[–] teft@piefed.social 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Go look at what an E5 earns for pay in a month and then you'll understand why the commissary is subsidized.

[–] poprocks@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

It's way more than minimum wage, which is what many make, and they also get great healthcare and a housing allowance, both of which most people making way less than E5s do not get.

[–] Saprophyte@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You can see the prices here. These are sales flyers, but pretty on par with Kroger or Walmart neighborhood stores. Little more expensive than lidl though. https://shop.commissaries.com/

[–] PangurBan@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

More expensive than WinCo as well. Interesting.

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