If you change to different centralized payment systems, they will eventually devolve into oligopolies/monopoly as well. In order to make a final solution that works forever, you need a free/open protocol like GNU_Taler
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Don't bother with Discover. They play too much with dates and fees
There should be some sort of free and open source payment system with no central party in charge at all.
there is GNU Taler but nobody use it right now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Taler
That's because it's only available in like one country, afawa.
My geography is rusty. Where is afawa?
This is the most American thing I have ever read.
North of afaik
It means as far as we're aware.
How is that even possible if there's no central party in chargeβ½
Because not many businesses/countries have signed up to it. We said "available" when we perhaps should have said "used" but you hopefully understand us better now.
A Canadian alternative is desperately needed too.
at least we have debit....
Lets create a distributed fediverse alternative lol
It would get stuck in endless debate over whether John Deere should be allowed to sell things because someone from Israel bought a tractor once.
They are planning to release were system to replace Visa and MasterCard.
More banks and businesses should support Taler.
If Visa/Mastercard get replaced by another company's centralized payment system, what prevent a large foreign corp from buying it, like they regularily do? Then we're back to square one.
Norway has BankAxept I believe. Fully homegrown, works just like visa.
Every country in Europe has its own payment system, that's kind of the whole point
Italy has Bancomat, but still. We need a system that's interoperable in the whole Europe.
How the fuck does Europe not have it's own payment system yet?
For one, visa and all the other US payment systems, suuuuuck. I never understood why nobody came up with something better, this just seems lazyness.
Buy hey, better late than never
How the fuck does Europe not have itβs own payment system yet?
Europe has everything of its own. But it's almost always country-specific.
The actual answer: they did.
The chip payment standard used on modern cards and terminals falls under a specification called "EMV", which was name after the three companies that made the standard - Europay, MasterCard and Visa.
Europay merged with MasterCard in 2002.
Source: used to write software to validate and test EMV.
Also the US payment systems and the European payment systems are identical (same standard) but implemented badly in the US, that's why it's much faster in Europe. I have several war stories about all this.
I want to hear those war stories.
I'll give you a fun one.
A point of clarification before I begin though - when I talk about chip cards or smart cards, I mean cards equipped with an EMV chip in them. The USA was one of the last countries to adopt this technology, only doing so roughly in the last 10 or so years. The technology has existed since the 90's (when Europay still existed) and gets regular updates to add new encryption schemes and security gubbins, so while it's 90's technology, it has been updated since (Today's cards use AES and ECC).
Prior to that adoption, the USA basically refused to use them because of the cost (Cost of cards, cost of new terminals, cost of upgrading legacy infrastructure), however they wanted all the modern conveniences like contactless payments - so those first contactless cards were equipped with simple RFID chips. You know the kind, the ones that just spew out static data. Those are the ones the Mythbusters guys investigated and were forced to not air their findings because they're so dogshit insecure (and where the idea of someone walking down the street with a big RFID reader hoovering up credit cards comes from).
With an EMV chip card, you can't do that. Those chips are like mini computers, they don't just spew out static data like your card number, they do challenges and responses, they do encryption, MAC's, the works. They really are quite secure. A transaction works in such a way that the card doesn't trust the terminal and the terminal doesn't trust the card, they validate each other and at any time either of them can say "Nah fuck this, I want to talk to the Bank" - this is called "going online" and if that doesn't work, the transaction is aborted.
The point of all of this preamble is to say that it's actually really difficult to perform fraud on a proper chip card (And again I'm talking about EMV chips, not RFID chips). Not impossible, but very difficult to the point where it's usually not worth it.
So, to try and push adoption of the EMV standard in the USA, the big issuers (Your Mastercards and your Visas) tried to push what they termed the "Liability shift". To put it simply, they'd say something like "If you don't support EMV by November 15th, any fraud in your shop/bank/whatever will come out of your pockets, not ours". Meanwhile, they charged a fee (like 2%) on every transaction to cover fraud. So as a shopkeeper, you'd lose an extra 2% (or whatever it was) on every sale, but if someone came in and bought 10 big-assed TV's using a stolen or cloned card, you didn't lose that money.
The problem is, no shops or businesses were going to upgrade all their equipment any time soon and certainly not before their banks could support it. Likewise the banks didn't want to spend all that money and then tell their clients to buy all new equipment - they were afraid of losing customers because why would a customer spend thousands on a new terminal to stick with the same bank, they may as well shop around.
This weird stalemate meant that adoption was basically nill, so the issuers had to keep pushing back the liability shift over and over. Each time they got a little bit firmer, a sort of "Okay it's now October next year before you need to adopt EMV but this time we mean it for realsies!". This went on for YEARS and years until one day, Mastercard decided "you know what, fuck it, we're not going to bother at all". It turns out, those fees for protecting against fraud? They were lucrative. They made shitloads of money from it, way more than what the actual fraud was costing them.
We got told in advance that an announcement was going to go out - pushing back the liability shift "Indefinitely", which was a real bummer for us because we were about to make shitloads of money selling testing tools and equipment to every fucker who suddenly needed to adopt EMV. Then, literally like 4 days before that announcement was due, a miracle happened - Target got hacked.
Yes, that target hack from 2013 where like 40 million credit cards were leaked onto the internet. The hack that made national news for weeks, the one that rustled the jimmies of everyone who had ever set foot inside a target. There was the biggest credit card breach on record, costing hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud and untold bad blood for tens of millions of customers and Mastercard was about to make an announcement to the effect of "Hey we're going to cancel the one thing that would have prevented all this impending fraud from ever being able to happen".
Yeah, they didn't make that announcement. Instead, they put their foot down and suddenly the USA woke the fuck up and decided to finally adopt chip card technology.
(And of course they did a shit job of it, but that's another story for another day).
France still has one. It's called CB (Carte Bleue) and is working alongside Visa and Mastercard. Notoriously, some years ago Visa was down for a day and it impacted lots of countries except France because everyone fell back to the CB Network.
Also in Italy with Bancomat. But still, wouldn't it be nice if you could use a European card across all Europe?
A lot of countries in Europe have widely used country-specific payment systems.
The problem is those which don't as well as the system of one country not being usable in other European countries so it falls back to VISA or Mastercard to use your card when abroad or for online purchases from businesses based in other countries.
I have high hopes for the Digital Euro.
To have a digital payment medium that is issued by the central bank and can be exchanged without fees as a 1:1 digital equipment of cash would be amazing and go beyond just replacing American credit card providers.
What are the chances it will rely on Google's Play integrity service?
I'm betting that anyone wirh unlocked bootloader or root access won't be able to run this.
The EUDI Wallets have/had that as a requirement in their spec but it has been heavily criticized, no idea if it will persist though
Please, make it available to Americans. I want to buy my hentai, and uphold the social contract with my fellow perverts.
Yet your elected officials are trying to force a digital ID through Zionist Larry Ellisons company Oracle onto the EU populace so itβs a little hard to believe they are going to do anything to challenge the powers that be.
Could you say the same thing minus the antissemitism? Of course, but wouldn't be the same, would it?
A religion is not a country. If a country is based on extermination and apartheid of people who do not meet their ethnic and religious requirements that country is in the wrong. Zionism is not representative of a religion anymore than nazism is representative of people who have a genetics tied to Germany. If you were against Nazi ideology are you against Germans? Your argument makes no sense and your claim that criticism of war crimes of a country following a very dangerous ideology are representative of an entire religion is offensive and I know for a fact that a lot of the Jewish community vocally does not not appreciate your argument or want to be tied to the toxic ideology of Zionism.
Here is a list of Anti-Zionist Jewish groups are they antisemitic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_anti-Zionist_organizations