Ask Lemmy

The book “Sapiens” does a good job framing this. Humans are social creatures. Our social groups define their own norms, mores, values, etc. To be “good” is to align with those values. Clashes happen when groups with vastly different values interact. The old adage “if you were born where they were born, and you were raised how they were raised, then you would believe what they believe” applies here, even though this isn’t always true.

The Internet makes this problem more stark. Our groups aren’t based on location anymore; our neighborhood, our school, our church. We can find our group(s) that align with and reinforce us any time we want. It’s also upset the typical way we define our values, and our society is struggling to catch up.

So long way of saying, good or bad relies on context and the values of those you’re close with.

But fuck people who don’t return their shopping cart. They’re just plain bad.

Honestly, I just kind of pick up on it.

Most people aren't good and they tend to get worse with age. The people who are good tend to have a hard time because of how awful the rest of us are.

Through their actions.

Most people are good. Most people forget to be kind to others sometimes.

Some people forget to be kind to others more. I kinda don't like that.

Some people need to cause others discomfort to feel like they are in control of their lives. I dislike that.

Some people feel that they have the right to or even should cause others discomfort because they have some kind of birthright granted by their religion, how aggressive their ancestors were, or some perception that they've worked harder than others. I feel that such people should either be rigorously reeducated or in some way removed from access to other humans entirely.

two things.

1. how they treat other people
2. what they don't say

first one is pretty easy. don't treat other people like pieces of shit, or you're a piece of shit.

second one, when they see something happening that is wrong and do nothing. you're a piece of shit.

Empathy

I believe people can be good in different ways. I had a friend who had some batshit insane religious beliefs (Baptist), like she said it was worse to kill yourself than someone else, because then you couldn't repent. But she would do anything for a friend, I had an emergency and she kept my kids even though she had a job interview, as an example. So she was good in actions and I'd argue evil in beliefs.

I have a coworker who is so mean & cutting, complains relentlessly about her husband, prickly person but does a great job at her job, loves her dog, and is great to work with because she Gets Shit Done. Is she good? Bad ?

I guess my bottom line criteria is can you care about others in at least some way, so empathy or sympathy is what makes it possible to be good.

are their actions based on how they benefit them?

It's all about empathy. If they lack empathy or kindness then fuck them. I don't want them in my life and I prefer not to interact with them.

This might be a hot take. I have a hard time with people who constantly drives above the speed limit. To me it says a lot about who they are.

E.g.

• they believe that rules don't apply to them

• that they are egoistic

• that they are reckless and can't foresee the potential consequences.

• that they lack empathy

How do they treat those that are "beneath" them? Customer service workers, pets, kids, etc. Anyone that they should have some sort of authority over.

Everyone will name some virtue they consider themselves to possess, and then use that to judge someone else.

I do the same thing almost everyone else in here actually does. I ask, 'how much are they like me?' Because, we all think of ourselves as being a good person. If I'm shocked and repulsed by something they do, because I wouldn't do that, then they are a "bad" person.

A few will say the opposite, "If they don't do what I do, then they're better than me, so they're probably a 'good' person." Because to those few, self-depreciation makes them a "good" person.

By watching show they behave when they can get away with doing the bad things.

Heh. I assume everyone is a bad person unless they immensely prove that they aren't. they can't do lots of drugs, lead chaotic lives, be anti-intellectual, be a gossip, be greedy, a control freak, have an immoral job, use religion as a cudgel, have no integrity, be overly optimistic, have lots of kids, etc. etc.

If they harm other people, intentionally or not, physically, emotionally, etc. And they could stop but choose not to, then often they are a bad person.

Their ability to return their shopping cart to the corral

Easy. By what they say and do.

I assume everyone is good by default, and I'll usually let a tasteless joke slide once, because we all occasionally put our foot in mouth.

If their actions and words don't mesh with my own moral compass, they aren't a person I associate with any more than necessary.

If they lie all the time, they are probably willing to do other awful things as well.

If they are willing to steal outside of a desperate situation, if they treat someone who's been good to them awful, if they treat those beneath them awfuly, if they judge based on location, race, etnicity, etc. If they put whatever fantasy world they live in, over reality (antivaxxers and such, and yes religious people).

If they co-operated with Jeffrey Epstein, they only belong in the woodchipper.

For me it is more about what does the person contribute for the betterment of society.

Although philosophers who embrace moral realism will have different views, my takeaway is that it is much harder to be a virtuous moral agent than the layperson assumes.

That said, if I find that a person often puts their own interests above those of everyone else, this is a good indication of questionable character.

Ocular patdown