Unfortunately because of the wonderful policies by sequential US governments, US citizens will not be able to buy Chinese chips because obviously the chips will spy on you just like Chinese EV's, routers, phones, toasters, drones, etc. But all the good things by American tech companies whom totally respect your privacy, like Google scrapping all spirit airlines communication, or Flock camera drones, is just fine.
Technology
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
Good, more for the rest of the world.
Pads tears with €
EU taxes the shit out of Chinese electric cars to protect the automotive industry that failed to innovate here. In fact they've only been adding more and more taxes and fees on anything that's imported, usually putting the costs on regular people.
Hopefully since the EU high density desktop/server RAM industry is pretty much nonexistent (as far as I know), they won't tax it to hell.
China RAM vs US RAM, they are both not EU "allies" now so there should be little reason.
Fortune Cookies banned for being part of elaborate mind control operation.
But all the good things by American tech companies whom totally respect your privacy, like Google scrapping all spirit airlines communication, or Flock camera drones, is just fine.
A nationstate, whether a autocracy or even a real democracy, does have a genuine national security interest in preventing foreign spying. No matter how much that nationstate itself spies on its own citizens.
So the argument about domestic spying existing, to argue that Chinese spying does not matter, is quite a non sequitur.
To make a stick of RAM spyware, would cost $100k/stick or more, and the engineering to do so, could make HBM6 instead. By all means investigate the chips to see if magic chips are inside, but that is the approach we should take. Why aren't Chinese sneakers spying on you? Far easier to hide and do more cheaply.
The hysteria of foreign spyware is shaped by established monopolies who want to keep their monopolies. There is never a proposed solution of actually verifying/inspecting for spyware.
China stealing anything loses any bite when you realize every AI company stole everything and is supported by the Government.
RAM prices will fall now, this is good news. Fuck the cartel.
They won't sell it to you, they're just making sure they aren't beholden to the same ram shortages the rest of the world is.
There's nothing Chinese won't sell to you
I'm take one Beijing, please.
RAM is a commodity, so if this stuff is produced in large quantities, it will affect the global market by lowering China’s demand for imported RAM.
Same as oil and gas, even if North America will never import Iranian product, their prices are affected by that stuff not reaching the market in Asia or whatever and driving up the Asian demand for oil elsewhere.
They won’t sell it to you
China is a major consumer of RAM. If they can supply it domestically, that has the potential to reduce the volume of global imports and subsequent price pressure.
If their competitors can't keep up, you will eventually see Chinese RAM get out onto the secondary market in the same way Chinese EVs and Chinese cell phones and Chinese solar panels and Chinese steel have depressed global prices for these commodities.
This was easy to predict.
Chinese government is not stupid. They have a strategy (more so than USA does). Years ago that was to dominate global manufacturing and supply chains. They were successful. Now the goal is to reach parity with Western chipmakers and/or get ahead. It's happening.
The AI boom was like a golden gift to them. Semiconductor prices are through the roof. So if they can produce almost anything at all in quantity it will sell for inflated prices.
While the tech companies of the world jerk each other off with AI, China is building DRAM capacity. CXMT is the first and will not be the last. They will scale quickly. If they have the process perfected they will build a fab in the time it takes USA to conduct the environmental review for the consideration of allowing a permit application to build a fab. They will not build one fab they will build 5 or 10. I'm proud to be American and I love my country but I compare USA to China on the ability to execute large projects like this and China will win every time. We have too much red tape, too many lawsuits and insurance and moving parts. China executes faster and more decisively.
So give it a year or two and China will have a fleet of pretty good fabs. They will sell memory for way less than what the others do. And then just as China made themselves indispensable for manufacturing, they will make themselves indispensable for DRAM.
There's also the issue of things not necessarily having to be the MOST profitable thing ever. Memory manufacturers decided to go to the highest bider because money. I suspect Chinese company will be quite happy to just flood the market with cheaply priced (relatively speaking) products and just get everyone's money.
This 100%.
HBM has massive profit margins. It's also hard as hell to make, as it involves multiple stacked wafers. This vid is a good catchup on that and the rest of this situation.
China will HAPPILY flood the non-HBM DRAM market with memory 'only' 2x as expensive as last year. And every PC maker, automaker, gadget maker, etc will happily buy it because as Valve famously put it, "They give us a price every month or something, and they say 'you can buy that many' and it's yes or no, and if we say no then they never talk to us again." Source interview. If China says 'we have consistent price, we have consistent supply, we can meet your needs' and the quality is decent then it doesn't matter if it's slower or DDR4 or whatever people will love them for it.
And play that ahead.
The big 3 are focused on HBM and most of their capacity is already sold through 2027
If China can scale up production of standard DDR4/5 and sell it reliably at 200% of normal price (aka, below current market rates) then there's less incentive to build fabs. So they will let China have the consumer market with their blessings. And thus China will have made themselves essential in yet another product supply chain.
There is zero guarantee China will sell it to consumers given that companies and governments all over the world are willing to pay premium value for current ram prices anyway
We should still benefit from China making good memory chips. Assuming the chips are fungible, China might buy fewer Samsung or Taiwanese chips and that's more chips for us.
Assuming the chips are fungible, China might buy fewer Samsung or Taiwanese chips and that’s more chips for ~~us~~ Altman & Amodei
Why not create good will and establish a consumer brand? Undercut everyone.
If this is government backed they can do just about anything they want.
Is it normal to refer to Taiwanese RAM manufacturers as "Western"?
I'm glad they distinguish it from China obviously, but calling G.Skill and MSI Western feels kinda weird.
Sort of the joke in the modern US attitude towards Taiwan. They see a break-away province and have no actual respect for their sovereignty. Independent small nations are just colonies-up-for-grabs in the eyes of the US State Department.
Nothing a import ban can't fix.
While making sure to write the ban in ways that doesn't stop machines being assembled there just not in ways that lowers prices
Yeah that's probably a sad truth for those in the good ol' USA.
Things are moving ahead ahead of schedule.
I wonder how long it will take the US to view RAM like they view oil and invade China?
There is so much over investment in memory its going to be dirt cheap again in 2028
This is simply not true. All the major players are not investing in production. They are simply letting the demand stack and prices to rise.
China entering the market will help some, but expect these chips to be banned quite quickly in the western world for fear of communists. They are already blacklisted by many companies.
Yes they are. Samsung and SK hynix are building 4 new fabs I'm Korea 1 in the US. Sandisk and kioxia are building extra capacity in Japan. Micron is building new fan in the US. Its nearly a trillion in investment for additional capacity. These are expected to hit the market in 2027 and 2028 with lag to backfill demand.
Chinese ram will be good but not good enough to block it. Business will keep buying the high preformance stuff and consumers can have the cheap modules but they buy so little it won't affect anything.
I eagerly await the 64GB mouse driver and the 5000PB home NAS for the discerning hoarder of the output of /dev/rnd
Okay, where can I buy them, below the price of "western" RAM?
The Chinese government being much more fans of a directed market than of a totally unregulated one (neither of which is a Free Market by the way - that thing only exists when barriers to market entry are incredibly low, and it's not as if any Jack or Joe can set up their very own memory production cottage factory in their backyard, so it's not possible for there to be a Free Market in RAM under current technology), they'll probably make sure that RAM only ever leaves China as part of more complex products (i.e. computers, smartphones, tablets and so on) made in China, thus making also Made In China for those product lines be more competitive.
(In other words, want a gaming PC or smartphone with more memory - buy the whole thing from China or pay 10x more)
If properly managed this could boost quite a lot more digital electronics industries in China than merelly RAM.


And I‘m sure Chinese data centers are very happy about it.
Not great with hardware tbh.. will I soon be able to nab 64 or 128gb of ddr5 compatible with my American gaming pc?
