I was gonna post this on Fedigrow myself. But then I realized that it would be a very bad look. It’d seem like the person who starts a huge drama about threatening to leave when they’re some small fry, “don’t let the door hit you on your way out.” That is absolutely not what I’m trying to do! I want to help the Fediverse grow, but I also feel it’s increasingly becoming a place I might not want to be in anymore, and I can’t be the only person feeling this way, although it also likely has to do with my own particular psychological vulnerabilities. So I figured I’d share my issues in the hopes maybe it starts a discussion on if you find it worth changing in order to help grow the Fediverse, and if so, how. (Or not, maybe I just don’t fit in here!) And have Blaze post it instead of actually me, to avoid the entire “I’m leaving! (Unless you beg hard enough for me to stay)” *flounces off in a huff* thing. Can’t flounce off if you don’t know who I am.

I participate and post on the Threadiverse because I want to help open-source Reddit alternatives, open-source social media. But they can never fucking stop talking about real world horrors, party pooping in threads that are not meant for political or real-world discussion constantly. Do I agree with most of the points? Yes. But I’m trying to talk or read about something else. It’s gotten to the point I don’t want to check notifications anymore, in case my post with a joke about cats results in a top-level comment about the environmental problems outdoor cats can cause (and then I get pissed because why is everything always being circled back to some real-world struggle or injustice, can’t this place just put the pitchforks down and have fun for once. Then I also feel bad I got pissed because it is probably an overlooked situation people don’t think about that deserves to be heard and my anger is because I’m trying to shut others up to make myself comfortable. Then I feel angry again, because minorities affected by real-world happenings want rest and comfort from the constant reminders of bad real-world happenings too, it shouldn’t automatically make you a privileged-people-head-in-the-sand bad guy. Please don’t eat me alive if actually outdoor cats don’t cause problems, I am not a cat owner and have no stake in that argument, it’s just an example). Even in communities that have rules against politics or depressing or outraging content, this type of comment will be posted.

Sometimes it just pisses me off, sometimes I enter a huge doom spiral after seeing the real world horror post and do nothing tangible to help anybody. I only ever manage to actually put my small drop in the bucket to fight against these people when I’m not on an outrage scroll doom session. (And I do wonder just how much we are encouraged to vent online so we don’t take our anger to protest or call representatives or spend time trying to figure out how to gum up the works of the orphan crushing machine. For what it’s worth I’m putting this vent out there because I think it might be useful for people to get a gauge on possible discontent with the Fediverse—I want us to have a big audience! If it were Vent #3382 about the same damn thing and this was posted in the community every day I’d probably think twice about trying to have it posted.) And I never used to be this sensitive and easily-triggered into a doom spiral, but I think I also never saw politics posted quite this often, quite this eagerly, quite this angrily. (And the political situation was never so bad for me and personally threatening to basically all my minority demographics to the point where I would want to escape from it online because it was omnipresent everywhere else.) I tried to escape the hellscape of modern social media like Reddit and Facebook and their political shenanigans and constant outrage and enshittification, by going to the Fediverse, only to continue being given the outrage. Just not so algorithmically pushed at you because that is the goal, but pushed at you because that’s what the people here organically say and upvote. I mean hey, no intentional tracking or monetization of outrage, no enshittification, but I sort of feel like it was out of the frying pan into the fire. It’s gotten to the point where I post and walk away, not wanting to check comments (or even my own notifications) in case someone else has some snarky one-liner about the immigration horrors in the United States of America… because someone posted about American cheese in a food community. I wonder if I’m the only one who feels the Fediverse is just… so much politics all the time that I don’t want to engage. If new folks checking us out feel the same way.

And yes, I have aggressively curated my feed and still see this. I only check Subscribed, and decidedly did not subscribe to Politics or Technology. And then, once I saw how many outrage or doom posts got on there, I also unsubscribed from Gaming and big meme communities. And I still see this stuff all the time. I wonder how it is for those who want to use Local or All. Yes, I do report these posts in communities where it’s against the rules. And it’s not like these comments are downvoted, either. They’re upvoted. Maybe I just don’t belong here, if my tolerance for discourse is too low even if my political views fit in well.

But yeah, not wanting to check my notifs because 1/10 of the time it’s some real world horror comment in a community not for that ain’t it. Not wanting to check comments on any post because they’ll usually have a real world horror comment ain’t it. The ratio wasn’t nearly this bad back when I was on Reddit. And I don’t think my current approach of posting and then never tending it is what we want, but hey, at least I’m currently part of the 1% that posts. I might stop so I can stop getting triggered into doomscrolling and spend more time fighting back against the things that make me want to doomscroll.

I leave this screenshot of a tumblr post on Reddit, transcribed for those of you who do not want to go to Reddit:

myfandomrealitea

I am actually begging some people to just let some spaces exist untouched by real-world issues and horrors.

Like I’ve lost count of the amount of times peaceful game or fandom servers have been ruined by people stampeding in with political rants, bitching about world issues, demanding internal activism, demanding vent channels so they can whine about their shitty parents, ect.

Like. Respectfully. Not every single space has to be inclusive of and welcoming of outside topics. The real world sucks. We don’t needed to be reminded of that absolutely everywhere.

4whomittolz

I get what you’re saying, but 90% of the time when I hear someone say this, the subtext is “women, queer people and black people existing in this space is political.”

I do agree with you on that, the world sucks and I just wanna get away from the stream of constant bad news, but you need to be aware of dogwhistles, and make sure you aren’t spreading harmful rhetoric.

myfandomrealitea

Ahem. Read the tens of thousands of replies and reblogs already discussing and addressing this. I am a double minority.

“Please don’t discuss Trump’s latest policies or send photographs of war injuries to this Witcher ship server” is not even close to “women aren’t allowed to be in this server because they’re women and we hate them.”

Thank you and good day.

all 29 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] graphito@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Someone better with words than me could crystallize this whole problem into an enforceable community rule.

Something like "no fud, no drama". Any other ideas?

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 2 points 9 hours ago

The problem is few mods want to stick their necks out and enforce those rules because they'll end up getting harassed by one the multiple instances that largely exist to harass people they don't like.

[–] graphito@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We at !memes@sopuli.xyz tried to separate politics away but it's an increasingly frustrating experience to explain why funny meme about, say, dolly parton is unfitting for our community

[–] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It takes constant vigilance and getting called a dictator a lot. Trust me it's for the best.

I was a mod on TheSilphRoad, a Pokémon GO mechanics/research/theory sub. Being both a buggy and multiplayer game, rants and hate posts are going to be common, but we really had to draw a line in the sand due to how prevalent it was/is. "We are here to discuss game mechanics. If you want to complain, take it to the general discussion sub." Because if they used the cover of discussing how a mechanic is broken and the last 1/3 of the post was a rant, the ONLY discussion on the post was going to be quips and complaints. We got called Niantic shills a lot.

But it made a MONUMENTAL difference in changing the culture of that space. It fostered a lot of data-driven analysis that would have been ignored on a sub that would otherwise be dedicated to pointing out flaws and yelling at the devs.

Fediverse is exactly the same. Anyone can make any community they want. You need to make YOUR community in your image, lest it become a place that doesn't suit the purpose in the first place. The complaints will always be 10x louder than appreciation of keeping a maintained space, so keep that in mind.

[–] catfeeder@piefed.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Yep, Fediverse is made and maintained by and for political activists and technology nerds. Mastodon is the same, Peertube is the same. I wouldn't be surprised if Pixelfed and Loops were also like that. That's just how Fedi is - if you want to talk to another demographic you go somewhere else.

Despite this, it is possible to make a consistently politics-free experience, at least on Lemmy/Piefed. But you need to carefully curate your subscription feed and do some blocking (domain blocking on Piefed is very powerful) on your behalf. You will end up with a small feed but it's better than the doomscrolling hell of /all.

For example, most gaming communities on Lemmy are actually corpodrama about Sony, Rockstar and all the other AAA gaming companies - stuff I genuinely don't give a damn about. Then I found !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works and realized just how much more I enjoy posting there than on other comms I tried. People there are very chatty and aren't too keen on derailing the conversation to some BS.

So, seek out communities that better fit your needs, block domains and annoying people (maybe keywords too) and do not feel like you must only participate on here - if your needs are better met by another platform, consider going on there instead.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 1 points 9 hours ago

I haven't seen a lot of activism on Fedi but I have seen a lot of performative slacktivism and complaints.

[–] Elevator7009@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

At my current level of knowledge, the way I see my choice of platforms online is:

Fediverse, with all the problems outlined above, but at least it's not enshittified
Enshittified mainstream social media

Genuinely, any advice?

[–] Klanky@sopuli.xyz 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I saw a band at a festival last year and I like what they said (paraphrasing): ‘There are a lot of horrible things and we know our stupid little rock show isn’t going to change anything, but it’s ok to just have fun for your mental health.’

[–] banause@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Enter Shikari?

[–] Klanky@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 days ago

Superchunk, at the Best Friends Forever Fest in Las Vegas.

[–] misk@piefed.social 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

My advice is not to be afraid to block people, communities and even whole instances. I feel this unproductive political outrage is more common in crowded spaces where people are trying to impress others. Another option is to create new communities where this kind of behaviour is explicitly forbidden and enforce it without making any apologies to other people or yourself. Your own sanity is more important than creating a product for someone who won’t appreciate it.

[–] catfeeder@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Another option is to create new communities where this kind of behaviour is explicitly forbidden and enforce it without making any apologies to other people or yourself.

Unfortunately, if there's already an active community out there then most people won't bother to visit your new community, let alone posting on there. After all, most lemmings are okay with overwhelming political topics on here - otherwise we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It worked for !nonpolitical_comics@piefed.social . A search for nonpolitical communities yields a few hits. @Blaze@piefed.zip , do let your friend know that there is space for them here. Not a lot, we need to cultivate it. But it exists, there are people tending to that garden.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 3 points 1 day ago

Thanks!

[–] misk@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Platforms and communities I was part of before finding Fediverse were driven by user engagement and ultimately that was the reason why they ended up sucking. It’ll take longer doing things our own way and I estimate chance of success as very low but I think it’s a worthwhile goal and if by some chance those places ends up popular they’ll be a much more healthy.

[–] kichae@wanderingadventure.party 1 points 2 days ago

Lucy [she/faer] Then the answer is admins stepping in to do what's best for their ecosystem. Unfortunately, I think most adminstration want to be as hands off as possible.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago

Just not so algorithmically pushed at you because that is the goal, but pushed at you because that’s what the people here organically say and upvote.

I think there is probably a lot of overlap here, because even if someone uses the fediverse they likely have a lot of direct and indirect exposure to other social media. That stuff trains you to post a certain way and social norms are contagious, I know sometimes I catch myself writing in a way I think is shitty if it's what I see everyone else doing, it just feels natural and takes effort not to do. It really isn't easy. So thanks OOP for posting this anonymously despite your reservations about going against the grain, because even though I'm sure there are people who disagree with you about this on an ideological basis, I'd be willing to bet that the bigger factor is just the inertia of established posting styles.

What I'd advocate for here is, even if it's something everyone agrees with, if you're going to put something out there that is going to generate negative emotions, at the very least take a step back and hold yourself to a higher standard. Has everyone who will read almost certainly already heard of and felt bad about the thing this week? Is what you have to say likely to be something they haven't thought of already? Is it doom-biased idle speculation? Look at and think about what community and thread you are posting in. Don't regard upvotes as the final arbiter of whether you did good, use your own judgment.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 6 points 3 days ago

hes doing it wrong. he should block all communities he is not subscribed to and block users that comment in a way he does not like. that is the way to make a good experience here. Its ok to block people if they are debbie downer with cute cat pictures. heck he may have to block me. thats ok because it what he wants. he already knows what he wants he just needs to curate to that experience.

[–] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I wish more frontends and apps implemented support for regex-based keyword and URL blocking in the same manner that the now-unsupported Arctic app did. Any comment or post anywhere that mentions anything the user doesn't want to see could be blocked.

[–] kichae@wanderingadventure.party 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

zedstrian@sopuli.xyz This isn't a feed curation issue. It's a moderation issue.

In the olden times, posters trying to pull a discussion off topic would be treated as someone violating the rules and removed. The fact that so many people put the onus on users to manage a space now just points to how internalized the corporate "we don't want to have to pay for this" style of internet has become.

[–] Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Different users have different things they don't want to see; one person might not want to see anything that mentions 'Trump', another anything that mentions the U.S. altogether. Someone else might want to minimize the amount of violence in their feed and filter out mentions of 'war'. Yet another person might add a regex filter to block a series of URLs, such as:

(cbs|fox)news.com

That level of specificity—beyond the level of mere rule enforcement—is what such filters would enable. Piefed allows for keyword and domain filtering, so the ideal would be for regex support to be added to this, Lemmy and Mbin to adopt the same system, and for apps and frontends to support it.

[–] kichae@wanderingadventure.party 1 points 2 days ago

zedstrian@sopuli.xyz Sure, but that kind of stuff is for edge cases. if people are trolling forums and disrupting discussions with at most tangent tally related politics, that is a moderation issue, full stop. Overly complex text matching filter systems are just theatre, while also providing mods and admins excuses to not manage their spaces.

[–] CombatWombat@feddit.online 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I wish I had written this. I think of communities as fedi actors that boost my posts, so when someone responds directly to my post or comment, I assume it’s a direct reply to me. Conceptually, I don’t see a difference between the tags.pub relays and the threadiverse communities — you are sending a notification to me when you respond to a comment or at the top level of a post. Folks are constantly complaining they want more niche communities, and then make it extremely unpleasant to post niche content to niche communities, and it is deeply frustrating and discouraging.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 1 day ago

I always disable notifications on my posts. One of the best features of Piefed.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Mfw mfs want to grow the fediverse like capitalists want line go up, regardless of noise blasting out signal, planned obsolescence, waste the planet can't handle, then want to complain like it's anyone's fault but their own.

[–] catfeeder@piefed.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I find it so funny how the general attitude to growth here changed from hopeful "reddit, fear us for we are coming after you!" right after the API disaster to the current coping that "we are at the best point of Lemmy's existence - if we gain any more people we will literally turn into reddit at its worst because reasons".

Like yeah, it was sad seeing all the people departure back to Reddit after a few weeks of trying Lemmy. But the coping strategy you developed isn't very productive, you see? Not every one who laments the lack of people is driven by corporate values. Sometimes it's about diversity: more women, more people of color, more people in their 20s, more people outside the anglosphere and EU, more religious people. More people who are still able to HAVE FUN!

But yeah, dismiss me as a spez's alt or whatever. Enjoy your exclusionary leftist infighting club.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 1 day ago

That was the pickmes' vision, not the vision of those who self-value, and value quality over quantity.