this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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[–] invertedspear@lemm.ee 132 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As a fullstack developer I don’t appreciate you calling me out like this. Write an efficient SQL query you framework monkeys.

But also, this is very true.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 81 points 1 year ago (2 children)

DROP TABLE

That seems like a pretty efficient query!

[–] superduperenigma@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I see you've met my boy Bobby

[–] astraeus@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago

I hope you’ve learned to sanitize your inputs

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[–] kautau@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not understanding SQL (and in some cases NoSQL DBs) and the underlying database are a reason that so many full stack devs suck. Just because they use an ORM, they think the database work is magically solved, until they realize it’s just doing what they’re telling it to do and their lack of DB understanding has created an awful database structure. And then a DBA comes in, and then the entire ORM layer has to be scrapped because it’s trash, so on and so forth. A full stack engineer doesn’t have to be a DBA, but they sure as hell need to know what the ORM is doing to their data they are CRUDing

[–] JaxNakamura@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago

And then a DBA comes in

I'm convinced that's a mythical being. In my 20+ years of experience I've never encountered one.

[–] Wojwo@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

They don't write sql they just use some god awful orm or cram it all into a nosql db.

[–] RonSijm@programming.dev 104 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Backend Requirements: "When x,y goes in, I want x+y to come out!" - Okay

Frontend Requirements: "Well it needs to be more user-friendly, and have this rockstar wow effect" - Yea wtf are you even talking about? You want me to add random glitter explosions, because I found a script for that, that's pretty 'wow effect' right?

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Actually the front end stuff is more like "we need to make the 'sign in' button bigger. No one can click it because it's tiny, and it's in German."

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I spent years as a mobile developer and the thing that always drove me the most nuts was being handed a software design with lots of tiny buttons that were nearly impossible to tap with a finger. I generally implemented the UI by increasing the size of the tappable regions (without increasing the apparent size of the buttons) making it actually usable, but one time the designer discovered that I was doing this and went apeshit and convinced the project manager to order me to undo all this and make the tappable regions the same size as the buttons. The grounds for this was that implementing the larger tappable regions would take too much extra time - despite the fact that this had already been done and it took additional time to undo it.

[–] kurwa@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

So wait you actually had to undo it all? What kind of designer would make mobile buttons small?

[–] sheogorath@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I usually just do what they requested and when they come to complain I just tell them "well, you're the one who requested this" and pull up receipts. My DM to myself on Slack is filled with screenshots and links to confirmations for bullshit requests that the product team made.

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[–] docAvid@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago

Fucking apeshit craze-balls, makes sense, business as usual.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Marketing want us to add more typos to make the site feel more “friendly”.

[–] veroxii@aussie.zone 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a SaaS founder I'm now wondering if this actually works. Will have to talk to the front-end devs on Monday.

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[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Isn’t our main audience German? If you wanted non German stuff you shoulda asked for regional translations. Not only is that a change request, but you’re gonna be pushing the release window by months.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But it doesn't even say "Sign in" in German. It says "Das Bootton" because someone thought it would be funny and never changed it.

[–] Darrell_Winfield@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

That someone was RIGHT!

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Man, if only backend demands were algebraically tractable. Often they're related to frontend demands that may or may not make backend sense, since the frontend is all users see.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah that’s not a real back end

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah if you have shitty UX people frontend will just built what they’re told. Or actually more often, you could have really talented UX people and management decisions are like “needs more buy now buttons, the 3 visible on the screen aren’t enough.” Shit flows downhill

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[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

I can't be the only person who thinks "full stack" translates to "master of nothing." One of the best career moves I ever made was shrug off the pressure to go full stack, and dedicate myself to backend only.

[–] joyjoy@lemm.ee 103 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Full stack means we do it because nobody else will.

[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 13 points 1 year ago

I feel seen.

I might get that sentence embroidered on a pillow.

[–] firelizzard@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don't have to be a full stack dev for that to happen to you

[–] joyjoy@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, but when it does happen, you'll probably turn into one.

[–] firelizzard@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When it happens? That happened to me a long time ago. I’m still a backend developer. I can create UIs and I can spin up and manage docker CI infrastructure but I sure as hell don’t want to. A properly run company team should have separate professionals for UX, front end, back end, sysadmin, etc. Just because I am capable of doing those things does not mean I should.

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[–] Fal@yiffit.net 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think knowing about frontend is important for a senior or higher level engineer. I would expect someone at that level to be able to contribute where necessary, and know enough to make sane decisions and know when those decisions impact backend/frontend. But to be equally good at both isn't reasonable

[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A backend engineer that has adequately put in the time to operate at a senior level, will more than likely have worked closely enough with FE to check those boxes. They should be familiar with technical design and processes, which if done effectively, teach an engineer to ask those questions.

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[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As someone who likes to dip their toes into everything, I feel a bit called out by "master of nothing".

[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My apologies. My intention wasn't a dig at engineers themselves, but rather the trend of employers seeking "full stack" engineers, and the implications of them shopping for a singular engineer willing to do the job of multiple engineers-- IE be taken advantage of, and the first to be let go, because of a lack of specialized domain knowledge, etc.

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[–] Username@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

The truth is that there is value in both a generalist and a specialist.

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It just means he can't do it by himself.

Yours won't be perfect, but you can do the whole thing by yourself.

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[–] ImWaitingForRetcons@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

In my case, it was to increase the number of available job opportunities rather than any genuine interest.

[–] sheogorath@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

My company started with full stack devs only and we've transitioned to specialized back end and front end since we realized that 1 specialized BE Engineer and 1 specialized FE Engineer can work faster with better quality than having 2 Full Stack Engineers.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

Thank goodness issues respect the FE/BE break out.

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[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In my experience it's normally frontend programmers that go full stack.

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[–] Sickday@kbin.run 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

In my experience, that bottom image is equally applicable when Front End devs go Full Stack lol

[–] NoisyFlake@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

Frontend dev here, can confirm. Last week I had to look at some Java code and was instantly greeted by some AbstractFactoryBuilderImpl. Nightmare fuel if you ask me.

[–] eluvatar@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, it's accurate both ways

[–] frezik@midwest.social 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Most disciplines get more specialized as they evolve. Full Stack goes against that trend, and this meme points at the problem with that. I don't think it's going to last.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Overspecialisation can also suck eggs. Interdisciplinary research is trendy in science for the that reason. Even I occasionally read a paper and can see they're missing some basic fact from another field or subfield that totally undercuts their result.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] adrian783@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

le front end not actual work amirite

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 year ago

This is the dumbest trope. It's not the same kind of job, or even very coding-ish, but all the frontends I've made are horrifyingly ugly, and I hated making them.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

As a full stack developer (more experienced in back end) working on a full stack task at work I can confirm, yes, this is very true lmao.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 10 points 1 year ago

Both should be the bottom picture to be honest.

[–] corstian@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

This is me.

I would say I'm a fairly proficient dev overall, though on this one project I had to work the frontend. It was shit. Everything was shit.

The backend was a steaming pile of crap, and all of the implications of terrible design decisions were offloaded to the frontend. The frontend became the source of every single delay as it was where all crap started to surface. They were ignoring it, so besides frontend communication was also crap. Eventually, in line with ignoring all other issues, they sacked me.

Long story short, backend devs: treat your FE devs well.

[–] brettvitaz@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago

It’s always Patrick, so both are the same

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