HalfSalesman

Yeah this is unacceptable behavior. That said I think this is something that ought to be just explained to him because he might legitimately be a total dumbass.

That said I wish more restaurants were like Fuddruckers or Firehouse Subs and just let me grab my food from the counter myself once it was done. I don't really want to pay someone to carry my food & drinks to me and be possibly insincerely nice to me to increase their tip or whatever.

For once I think I agree with Linux purists.

Fuck I might need a shower.

And I’m not saying that homophobia, internalized or not, shouldn’t be considered.

Yeah I know you aren't saying that. In the same way that I'd still consider sexism/mysogyny as a possibility of being their primary reason. Its just not my first thought based on my experiences and intuition.

As you say, there are other reasons to engage in such behavior. But a) I’m probably going to be reasonably skeptical of those reasons and b) even if they have those reasons, it doesn’t make them not a misogynist.

FWIW I’m gay and nonbinary. I get where concern for homophobia is coming from. It’s just not my first thought in the specific scenario we’re discussing.

Yeah I understand that is your stance, what I don't understand is why you'd suspect that over homophobia. That's what I'm legitimately curious about.

Like, is it the same as me, in that its based on your personal experiences and knowledge of your own internal knowledge of your mind when you were younger? Is it more of some kind of logical/rational analysis? or statistical fact? Is it intuition? Ideological frameworks?

I just don't understand why this is your thinking and I'd like to know. I'm not saying you are wrong, my own beliefs aren't on like, rock solid critical thinking or facts or whatever. Its personal experience.

If you think we were worse off 20 years ago, you either are a psychopath or you are clueless.

Life is going to get a whole hell of a lot worse for a fuck ton of people because Trump won. Way more than during W. Bush.

You are OK with death and suffering if there is a light at the end of a tunnel. You are a psychopath who views individuals as disposable as long as humanity/civilization benefits in the long run.

If you’re interested in discourse, read what I already wrote. I said “I’d be more worried about misogyny” not that it would in fact make a person misogynistic.

I'm terribly sorry but I'm confused by what the meaningful difference is? I feel like you were trying to communicate something very specific here and I'm missing it.

Is is a problem to acknowledge that some people who would engage in that kind of behavior might be misogynistic in your mind?

No, its not a problem exactly. Its a reasonable possibility and it makes sense to be concerned about. A lot of men are dumb chuds, and women-hatred goes along with that. However, I don't think its realistic as a base assumption that its a larger possibility over homophobia for it to be your primary concern. Admittedly, this is more based on my own experiences though and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who'd care to install something like that.

Like, I know I clearly had internalized homophobia when I thought I was straight. And I was exposed to a lot more homophobia from my male peers than misogyny growing up. I saw and heard both, but one was WAY more intense and it was the homophobia.

That is to say, I'd bet the reason a person would do this is because of insecurity over potentially being gay/bi far more than because they are that obsessed with "putting women in their place" in their private video game time, other than on the basis of using the game as porn/erotica if they have some kind of kink and for whatever reason like using video games for that purpose rather than just regular purpose made porn/erotica.

The sort of guy who's primary reason for wanting to flatten men's asses in a video game would be because they view women as subhuman or something would make them unhinged and a rare breed of incel. While it being because they're insecure about their sexuality seems just... more likely to me.

I would have fought with you maybe if some people (supposedly "on my side") had not decided to spitefully activate hard mode.

I was in greater despair over the US about 20 years ago.

Then either you are a fascist or you aren't paying attention.

EDIT: Or an accelerationist. In which case also still just a fascist but a more delusional one.

You aren't getting laid if you are broke, unless you are very very hot or very very charismatic.

I'm not trying to change your mind I'm earnestly curious about how you think. My question was good faith. I promise.

If it theoretically ended up changing your mind or making you dig your heels in, so be it in either case. That's not what I want to achieve here in asking you about your perception.

I also earnestly just enjoy discourse.

If you don't want to answer though, that's fine. I'll leave you be.

So what are you saying, that a Californian progressive who voted for Stein made a dumb choice and the one who voted for Harris made the smart choice?

Blue states are the area where my argument is weakest, but honestly as a means of voting against Trump I'd probably still vote Harris if I lived in Cali. I'm less judgemental of people in solid blue states here voting third party, but I still think voting third party even then introduces future risk of vote splitting, but its a gaussian and temporal risk. So its hard to conceptualize.

Further, doing so and openly stating you intend to do so encourages people in purple and red states to potentially do the same. And lets be completely honest here: third party voters are going to be incredibly vocal about their vote. Third party and non-voters fucking love jerking themselves off about how virtuous they are for not voting for Harris.

Hypothetical, but still, who would you vote for?

I don't know. But not for fucking Jill Stein and can tell you that much. I wouldn't trust her 180 on Ukraine at all and there are other stances of hers I think are dumb. Nor would I likely bother with a different third party. I'd probably look look very closely at my options between red and blue. And I'd probably grit my teeth and vote for Biden depending on how he campaigned but I'd not be nearly as terrified since Trump is out of the picture.

And that's the rub: in your scenario fascism is not on the ballot. The stakes are significantly lower. So the details would matter more.

Did Harris even publicly utter the phrases “ranked balloting” or “proportional representation” in 2024?

I don't think she did, but neither did Trump. And in fact Trump is largely interested in destroying what little democracy we have.

I'm going to be honest though, it might as well all be hypothetical. Americans are fucked. Its game over, and we very very much deserve what's coming.