THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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No, just escalation. An ICE agent being shot is exactly what the Trump admin is after.
No, nonsense.
The trump admin wants to enact their plan. This bullshit about 'giving them a reason' is idiotic.
They are searching for and will find their own reasons, they're calling this innocent mother of three 'radicalised by the left'.
You are arguing for a lack of resistance.
You are right there will be escalation, but the escalation is coming regardless.
How many more innocent people have to be brutally murdered before enough is enough?
Or what do you suggest is done otherwise?
Personally I'm an advocate for burning their homes while they are out terrorising.
I would argue that peaceful mass protest would be more effective. The problem you have is that you are just not getting the numbers out on the street to become ungovernable and topple the admin. A general strike would change things quickly.
You start burning down ICE agents homes and having running street battles, yes it will feel satisfying to take some of them out with you but you will ultimately be killed or arrested and the admin will have the imagery to get low info citizens to side with them not you.
I agree with you that they are going to keep pushing regardless, but the people against this need the best optics possible to get more people on their side. Vigilante killings are not going to be helpful and will just accelerate things. I would say it's worth keeping to the peaceful route out of this, as civil war is going to be a absolute bloodbath and your going to be up against the American military. Bad odds.
That being said, owning a weapon and knowing how to use it is not a bad idea if the worst comes to pass.
"The revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it to" - Kevin Roberts president of the Heritage Foundation. That's what you're arguing for. They don't need a reason, they've already killed people without one.
Set out your stall then. What are you arguing for and be specific.
I am arguing that the Trump administration doesn't need any excuses to escalate and destroy democracy, they are completely fine doing it either way. What the fascists have said previously is that the revolution will happen no matter what, it's just up to the left wether or not they actually have to fight for their fascist dictatorship. Not shooting the fascists in the face, is letting them do everything they want, with nothing more than a slightly inconvenient protest every 6 months in a few cities.
Were all in agreement that Trump admin will keep ramping the pressure. So what are you actually suggesting as a workable solution involving force? Get pulled over by ICE just start shooting?
I am suggesting whole neighborhoods starting to chase them out with weapons. Yes, it will suck, yes, people will die, but the alternative is literally Auschwitz for everyone who isn't straight, white, fascist and able-bodied. They will not stop after putting brown people in concentration camps,. They will not stop after taking away the rights of gay people.
People are going to die, either in concentration camps, or in the streets.
Replicating what the black panthers did in their communities I can see working. You guys better start organising then.
This line of reasoning is now solely an excuse for cowardice. Trump will escalate no matter what.
Okay you have done the easy bit and called someone a coward.
What's your preferred plan to beat the Trump admin. Lets hear the exact details.
Find and join or create a local community based organization and talk to your friends, neighbors, coworkers, and family about the fascist threat. Spend your free time building a strong group that can unite with other strong groups when the time is right.
Political power is not something that can be given with a vote in this world, it must be taken by strength. And in the face of the strength of billionaires, our only chance is solidarity and the strength of a united resistance.
So when time comes to take things by strength wha is that actually going to look like?
General strikes, mass persistent protests, and other targeted non-violent actions. Mass movements that have actual commitment behind them are more effective.
But also, the state will never hesitate to use violence, so it is the right of citizens to self-defense. The Black Panthers were very effective at preventing police violence by patrolling their neighborhoods and providing an armed citizenry presence during police interactions. (That’s why Reagan made it illegal to open carry in California.) We need similar militias who can provide deterrence to ICE violence now.