this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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Fediverse

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Fediverse is a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe".

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A new messaging app is in development, and the project is described as "an open source WhatsApp for the Fediverse."

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[–] bappity@lemmy.world 61 points 2 years ago (1 children)

something something 15 competing standards

[–] esty@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 years ago (3 children)

unfortunately matrix sucks revolt isn’t federated and irc is outdated so

[–] Terevos@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I just learned about Matrix recently. Seems like something that'd be good. What sucks about it?

[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I personally really like Matrix, but there are a few outstanding complaints about it. The biggest one is that the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scaling. Server admins have had a huge challenge of supporting a large amount of data for things like room history, which in the past required propagation to every server hosting every participant. The protocol itself has been described by some developers as overtly complex.

Some of this seems to be improving, particularly with development of a Go-based backend implementation, Dendrite.

[–] Samsy@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And if dendrite fail, we wait for the rust-based backend implementation. :)

[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's funny. When I was typing my original response, I was under the impression that Dendrite was Rust-based! 😂 I'm really glad I checked before posting!

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[–] strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

@deadsuperhero
> the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scaling

This doesn't seem to stop the fediverse growing (*cough* Mastodon *cough*).

@Terevos

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[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (11 children)

IRC is only "outdated" if you make it so by using outdated networks like libera.chat that refuse to implement the newer standards that have been available for years.

Oh and XMPP is a thing and works great.

[–] Lucia@eviltoast.org 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

For some weird reason many people just plain ignore the existance of XMPP when they're discussing decentralized protocols. Is it because Matrix outshadowed it?

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

There is this wierd meme that IRC is "outdated" and XMPP is "dead", both of which is completely untrue, but somehow the tech-bro hivemind continues to spout this nonsense when ever the topic comes up.

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[–] Hominine@lemonine.hominine.xyz 5 points 2 years ago

Feels like Jabber has been around for a long time. If I'm not mistaken I remember my buddy pimping it as an AIM alternative back in the Napster/mp3 days.

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[–] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Matrix is getting better on fast peace, we need to give it another yew years to fix biggest holes I guess.

ActivityPub based chat is going to suck much. Like basing chat on RSS or FTP, it can be done but why. Unless we're talking just about replicating Instagram-like DMs then maybeee? But I still would like to just add link to Matrix in bio instead of having chat in yet another place.

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[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Oh boy... Another messenger... Yay...

[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 32 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nobody is telling you to use it. This originally spun out of development of a messaging app just for Pixelfed, but evolved when the dev realized it could be made to work with any Fediverse account, not just his own server project.

An optimistic view is that it could end up opening the door for end-to-end encryption to come to private messages in Fediverse servers, over time.

[–] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] ram@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I think what @deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml is trying to explain is that Mastodon and Lemmy for example may be able to implement Sup as a part of their softwares too. Currently if you try to DM someone on Lemmy, the options are a Matrix redirect, or Private Messages designated as not secured.

Though I do wonder about the viability of this. People would still need to set up with Sup to receive messages, at least as I understand it. As a result, this would run into a similar problem as matrix, just without needing to use a different federated server and login I suppose.

This would also require that project leads for AP softwares would want to accept the service as a part of their distribution, assuming it even is implmented in such a manner.

TL;DR it's hard to say anything for certain when details seem to be slim.

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[–] Pechente@feddit.de 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

With the open nature of the fediverse I actually see some potential here. Right now there isn’t a single messenger that I truly like. They’re all just different shades of okay or worse.

[–] XpeeN@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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[–] HidingCat@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (4 children)
[–] Lucia@eviltoast.org 22 points 2 years ago (9 children)

Mobile-first, requires phone number, proprietary server-side, google play market.

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[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago

Signal is great, but the core developer is inherently against federation with his own product. It's just one giant centralized service.

It feels like I'm doing shady backdoor deals. It's only for the people I conspire with and really close friends...

In which we just end up using regular old sms anyway lol.

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[–] hitagi@ani.social 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I wonder how it'll compare to Matrix.

[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think it's intended to be more like WhatsApp, in the sense that you use it for one-on-one chats or messaging small friend groups. I don't think it's a current goal to try to take on Matrix / Element.

[–] Claidheamh@slrpnk.net 9 points 2 years ago

use it for one-on-one chats or messaging small friend groups

Those are exactly what I use Matrix for.

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[–] glimse@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The name makes me think of the Bro app from Silicon Valley

[–] ram@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] BallShapedMan@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'm for it, plus I like the name.

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

What's Sup?

Nothing much, you?

No, what's, Sup?

... Just chillen...

Visible anger.

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If I ever create my own messaging app, it'll be called "updog".

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[–] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

’Who's on first’ vibes :-)

[–] sabaku_no_gaara@monyet.cc 3 points 2 years ago

Kinda shows how what's up has evolved over the years

What's up - WhatsApp sup - Sup

[–] MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm excited for it. I'm hoping it becomes a federated, self-hostable Signal.

It's way easier to sell friends and family on yet another messager when you tell them "look, it comes with a twitter/facebook/instagram/reddit too!"

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Do we if it will have scope to do group chats at all or well?

Seems to me that private group chats are significant piece missing from the fedi, especially as they seem to me to be a reasonable alternative platform structure compared to all the doom scrolling engagement stuff that the Fedi has so far more or less sought to simply clone.

[–] uzay 3 points 2 years ago

Groups support seems to be coming to pixelfed soon at least

[–] talou@jlai.lu 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Actually, for now @dansup@mastodon.social is working on an activityPub library called #pubkit https://pubkit.net

https://mastodon.social/@dansup/110887874008773474

[–] deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

He's working on multiple things at once. Where he finds the energy, I don't know, but PubKit, Sup, and a few other things are all happening right now.

This one article is part of a series where I'm hoping to put up one feature per day of what he's been working on. Pixelfed is notoriously hard to cover, because the lead dev is so active.

[–] boatswain 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I'm much more excited about Veilid than another server-based thing, even if it's federated servers. Fully peer-to-peer seems like the way to go for direct conversations.

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[–] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] feral_hedgehog@pawb.social 6 points 2 years ago

WHY ARE YOU SENDING MEMES IN THE SOUP APP?!

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