this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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Honestly.... Ya, literally any extra steps in signing up or slight bit of confusion is enough to make the average person give up and go back to whatever platform they are comfortable with. I've talked to people who dispise twitter but won't even switch to Bluesky because the extra dot in the user handle is too weird for them.
Yeah honestly they should make cars with one pedal. Two is just way to confusing for the average person.
One-pedal driving is a feature in a number of modern cars.
Wait until I tell you about the cars with three pedals.
Hi I found a 4th pedal on the far left that doesn't come back up when I press it, and my car makes funny smells now
My bicycle only has two pedals, but the seat smells funny too.
It's probably a controversial opinion, but you could solve that problem by not sniffing bicycle seats.
Who said it was a problem?
Conflating ease of operation with ease of sign up. Have you ever tried to read an article online and something pops up and you left the page, even if it wasn't necessarily trying to get you to log in? That's the sort of thing they're talking about.
Perfection
Mastodon instances keep deactivating my accounts when I don't post anything for two weeks, so yeah. Bsky it is.
I feel like bluesky is just an attempt by a lot of institutional powers that lost a platform when Elon took over Twitter to make what essentially is a clone of Twitter circa 2018.
What a lot of people forget is that, even before Elon, Twitter had become super toxic. It was basically some pseduo-progressive echo chamber dominated by lazy journalists, virtue signaling politicians, and toxic hot takes divorced from reality. The moderation system was just selectively enforced based on whatever Twitter's SF HQ thought was relevant that day.
I like the idea of anyone being able to spin up their own server and have a space for discourse. While it can be dangerous, I'd strongly argue that having a centralized private organization deciding what is/isn't acceptable is a lot more so.
It's how forums used to be, and it worked just fine. You had to go out of your way to find communities dedicated to bigotry instead of getting forcibly pipelined into them just for joining a funny cat image group.
Fuck. It's so true to man. I literally grew up on the Internet. I could not imagine that now.
Fun fact: ~~Bluesky was originally started at Twitter.~~
Kinda - the dev team was external and had already started the project when Twitter offered funding for an open protocol based version of Twitter, and selected the current team to do it (so Jack could avoid moderation duties, lol)
The Internet is just a fad. Wait until everyone logs into a single central server in Virginia. One database is all you need for Earth.
I'm literally moving my mastodon instance by car right now
People have containerized (like literal shipping containers that comply with ISO 668 and its successors, not just software like Docker) data centers that can operate wherever they can hook up power. Put some antennas or satellite receivers on the outside, and you might be able to literally have services running from a moving vehicle or ship.
Railcar. X-Files got that right. Move it across the country, tacked on the end of a freight or passenger train.
ICYMI, someone did run a GoToSocial instance on their car https://masto.doskel.net/@doskel/113884312225881269
Samsung Smart fridge instance coming soon?
Unless the instance can run in Doom, I'm not interested.
I'll take three!
What I am unsure about is whether this is a BS or AT thing. There are people expressing interest in using AT to make versions of other popular services (like TikTok, Instagram, etc) but would they face similar costs to run a relay? If so, and it would mean you either need VC or charity backing (millionaires either way), I fail to see the point when we already have everything chugging along here on AP - with an investment of a fraction of that money we could make on-boarding slicker and help iron out other niggles that occur when you are developing on a shoestring.
There are people expressing interest in using AT to make versions of other popular services (like TikTok, Instagram, etc) but would they face similar costs to run a relay
Most non-Bluesky App Views I know about (WhiteWind, frontpage.fyi, BookHive) just use BlueSky's.
I fail to see the point when we already have everything chugging along here on AP - with an investment of a fraction of that money we could make on-boarding slicker and help iron out other niggles that occur when you are developing on a shoestring.
You're failing to consider how this would benefit the shareholders! My portfolio line must go up!
As I understand it, it's kind of both.
The Bsky Relay costs are because it's the primary relay, sure, but any relay aiming to handle a mass amount of people, as well as a variety of AppViews, will likely scale similarly in costs. This is because to try to minimize any fragmentation of experience (as one may see with ActivityPub), AT protocol relays act as a central mirror of all the personal data servers connecting to them.
It's baked into the architecture for the most part, despite some later developments of lighter pseudo-relays that try to reduce some of the overhead. From the outset they've said they only really see there being a few large-scale relays due to the operational costs.
... AT protocol relays act as a central mirror of all the personal data servers connecting to them.
That's just reddit with extra steps.
Relay costs like 300$/mo to run and there’s a light versions you can sync too. Not exactly a blocker.
I'm interested in running one. any services you can link to that are that cheap?
ATProto is not nearly as mature as ActivityPub. Businesses are only just now launching ATProto services (Graze being among the first notable ones).
Ah yes, the tragedy of any federation, most people don't want to pay attention to every little thing in their lives so when one central node becomes "good enough" it's easiest to relinquish control for as long as it works.
I can think of one very large federation experiment in the world that went the same way.
Hell, lemmy.world is already the defacto way to engage here.
Now I want to see a Mastodon server setup in a camper.
I think that what a lot of people don't realize is that BlueSky is federated in order to make their corporate infrastructure stronger and easier for them to operate.
Is this really how it works? Is that per year? Hosted? Or do you own the software and can host it on your own?
There are many types of Bluesky servers. This post is about ATProto Relays, which consolidate all the data across the network into a single location. They are necessary for efficiency, but they are extremely expensive to run. Currently, there is only one ATProto relay, but there is an initiative to launch a third-party relay.
In addition, it's estimated to current cost about $500 a month just to store the contents of a relay server. this doesn't include network or computer cost. this will only get more expensive and lead to big businesses being the only players. relays, being the "Post office" of bluesky, have the power to suppress whatever they don't like.
ActivityPub really is "for the people".
But can ActivityPub scale?
Can AT Proto? It goes both ways.
In terms of infrastructure, Bluesky does seem to be capable with keeping up with the current level of 5,000,000 posts per day by pouring money into their relay. What I'd like to know is the cost per user of Bluesky compared to a centralized service like Threads.
I think one of the bigger issues with Bluesky scaling is moderation. Mastodon admins only have to deal with moderating their own instance, while ATProto labeling services can receive reports from any and all Bluesky users. So far, most people who attempted to launch an independent replacement for Bluesky Moderation Service have failed to keep up with the volume of incoming reports. Usually, they have to narrow their scope and focus on very specific issues, like Laelaps, Asuka's Anti-Transphobia Field, Blacksky Moderation, and AI Mod. However, as Bluesky grows, I even expect them to be unable to keep up.