this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2025
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Penn Jillette (en.m.wikipedia.org)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world to c/wikipedia@lemmy.world
 

Neat quote saw when reading. Admitting you're wrong in a genuine way is something you see rarely these days.

"In a 2024 interview, he said he renounced his libertarianism as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic after a libertarian group asked him to speak at an anti-mask rally. "The fact they sent me this email is something I need to be very ashamed of, and I need to change" adding "Many times when I identified as Libertarian, people said to me, 'It’s just rich white guys that don’t want to be told what to do,' and I had a zillion answers to that — and now that seems 100 percent accurate."[56]"

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[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 107 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I've always had a lot of respect for Penn's sincere "individual freedoms as long as they don't infringe on the individual freedoms of others" brand of libertarinism that advocated still caring about other people, and isn't about just deferring to corporations

I'm not surprised he no longer identifies with libertarianism, given what it's increasingly come to mean. I may not look at the world exactly the same as him or always agree with him but people with sincere principles always have my respect.

The way he and Teller made a show to basically showcase other magicians is super cool. If you look up Penn & Teller: Fool Us on YouTube you'll see tons of magicians publishing their segments on the show on their personal channels, which must mean Penn and Teller negotiated that performers would have rights to their own performances and can publish them themselves.

Thats fucking cool. (Also a great show, it makes a great YouTube binge!)

[–] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 45 points 2 months ago (3 children)

That's what I thought libertarianism was until my mid 20s. That's seriously what I was taught that it was to be a Texan. If you don't like what your neighbor is up to, don't fucking look. The issue is that dumb motherfuckers keep expanding on what they think "infringing on the individual freedoms of others" means. Now it just means "anything I don't like".

Hell, I'm still anti-authoritarian for individuals (companies should be heavily regulated). If you're not hurting someone else I don't really care what you're doing. Anyone that does has too much time on their hands.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

This is because modern political libertarianism was literally financed by fossil fuel and tobacco billionaires who opposed all regulations; especially health, environmental, and labor. They seized libertarianism as a means to destroy the government. Prior to their takeover in the 70's, Libertarianism was considered to be progressive.

Most libertarians don't know what libertarianism is, because they are conservatives who believe their narcissistic "fuck you, got mine" conservatism is libertarianism.

[–] tehmics@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I was really confused when I used to identify with libertarianism, and got lumped in with conservatives. I always hated those authoritarians, and the corporations they rode in on.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I am quite certain the majority of humans are libertarian — the live and let live, without hurting each other, kind — but I never call myself libertarian to anyone without a massive disclaimer.

You can't even say "socialist libertarian"... because that sounds like an oxymoron to people. They have no concept of what it means... then you have to explain that socialism can't exist without democracy... then you have to explain how wealth is power and extreme wealth inequality, where one individual can own more than thousands or millions of people, results in individuals having more power and influence than thousands/millions of people, and is a direct threat to the life and liberty of those people.

It's ultimately better off not saying any of the buzzwords at all. Thanks, conservatism...

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago

Hell, I'm still anti-authoritarian for individuals (companies should be heavily regulated).

That's more or less my political ideology. "I think gay married couples should be allowed to protect their weed farms with guns." But as soon as it comes to income, I'm hardcore authoritarian. Don't even get me started on how I feel about rental properties. What I have to say about landlords could get me a visit from an FBI party van

[–] crowleysnow@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think you (past you at least) would have identified as a libertarian socialist and those other idiots are libertarian anarchists.

[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Hey, happy lemmy anniversary, I'm glad you're here! ❤️

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Anarchism is the better version of libertarianism. Left-anarchism gives all of the liberties but without capitalism. If only capitalist realists could get past that hurdle.

[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I need to learn more about anarchism as a political philosophy, I have little grasp of like, what it actually means in practice

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 10 points 2 months ago

by its nature there's a lot of free content online.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works isn't a bad start.

The works of Kropotkin are on there as well. Conquest of Bread is a banger.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 66 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm so glad. Good for him. I was a bit cooled down on him for a while because of this tbh

[–] vaguerant@fedia.io 71 points 2 months ago

This old Toothpaste for Dinner comic is all I can think about when someone says they're a libertarian. It's got me this far.

my daughter's a libertarian, too! / how do you know? / she doesn't understand the world at all, so i just figured

[–] Despair@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Funny that an anti-mask group asked him to speak considering that him and Teller filmed this. https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

That's the first thing I thought of, did they not watch the bullshit episode on vaccines? Penn and Teller are provaccine you chods lol

[–] Hikermick@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Apparently they didn't do their research

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Wouldn't be the first time.

[–] tehmics@lemmy.world 47 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm really glad to see this.

Penn Jillette played a big role in who I am today. Bullshit! helped shape my skepticism in my late teens, and I was fascinated with magic even earlier than that. I went on to adopt some libertarian views and listened to his podcast for years, but I grew away from him during COVID because I was seeing how his position was harming people. I always thought he was a smart respectable guy, so seeing him reflect and change is heartwarming.

[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've been rewatching Bullshit! recently and found myself disagreeing with him quite a lot. I used to like the show a lot, and the same as you it helped build my skepticism. Some episodes are still good, some have aged terribly.

[–] tehmics@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)
[–] tehmics@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yikes, I haven't seen the wealth distro one in a while.

I'm still firmly in the 2nd amendment camp, especially given the current climate.

Thanks for the links

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah, I'm of two minds on 2a. On the one hand, in a country where anyone could have a gun, everyone should, and if they start trying to round up political dissidents to put in camps, I should hope that enough of us have guns that we can successfully prevent it.

On the other hand, we are the only country where school shootings regularly happen. A 16 year old kid was shot to death at a high school two days ago, and I didn't even know about it until I looked it up.

This is the one topic where I do not know where I stand. I don't know if the very real, very present innocent people dying on a regular basis is worth the potential to resist tyranny, should the need arise.

[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago

Second hand smoke and the Walmart episodes I disagreed pretty heavily one.

The college one had some fallacies in their arguments.

[–] astrsk@fedia.io 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Don’t scare me like this. More context in the title!!

[–] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Sorry bb.

Remember for next time

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

"'But without religion, people would rape and murder all they want!' I already do rape and murder all I want. And that number is ZERO, because I have no desire to rape and murder!" - Penn Jillette

Also: When playing the Devil's Advocate in the argument that vaccines cause autism, using the made up figures of the rate that supposedly happens, still showing how it's more harmful to not vaccinate if only 1 out of every 10 people get autism, there's still thousands of deaths caused by curable diseases from not vaccinating.

[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Very similar to my journey though no one asked me to speak anywhere and I had the privilege of being able to change my mind entirely out of the public eye.

Much respect for this.

[–] Noblesavage@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

It takes a lot of strength to change what was probably a core part of your identity - I respect your change.

[–] marx2k@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

He's so tall he looks life-size from the cheap seats.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 months ago

He's so tall, he looks life-size on my phone screen

[–] FrChazzz@lemm.ee 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Was libertarian in college. Realized that a key facet of libertarian thinking involves the ideas that “government is a necessary evil” and that “government exists to keep one person’s freedoms from infringing on another’s.” Which led me to consider that if it’s a necessary evil then government should work for the majority of people. Further, government’s “umpire” role should apply to the rich since their freedoms are often infringing on mine and others’ (and wealth is a form of power that needs its own checks).

Anyway, I think I lean more toward communitarian politics nowadays.

[–] JC1@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago

Libertarianism has roots in socialism. The term has been coopted by anarcho capitalists. You're right with your analysis IMO. You can't be free with authoritarian politics and/or authoritarian economy. Capitalism is very authoritarian.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

yeah before I knew about this I always liked him with an asterisk. he's smart and entertaining, but he's a libertarian. I couldn't dislike him though because whenever he spoke he always seemed progressive, humble and empathetic, unlike libertarians. then I recently learned he denounced libertarianism. and now there's no asterisk. I like the guy.

also p&t have been hosting the best talent show for more than a decade.