this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
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[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 226 points 2 years ago (8 children)

It occurs to me that Kutcher and co might not have had access to the court proceedings, testimony, and evidence, but might have had a lot of access to Masterton's side of the story.

It also occurs to me that being friends with people is complicated and that bad people emotionally loan shark a lot - maybe they felt obligated to send letters of support because they were being guilt tripped about all he'd done for them or because they think being a good friend is supporting no matter what (aka being an enabler).

All that said, Kutcher's a grown up adult who should have been able to predict that supporting a sex abuser is going to conflict with being involved in an anti-sex abuse organization.

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 85 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It is a pattern, he had done the same thing before.

From Wikipedia:

"In November 2011, Kutcher received heavy criticism for his tweet in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal, calling the firing of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno "in poor taste". Kutcher subsequently turned over management of his Twitter account to his team at the Katalyst Media company."

Edit:

The more I read his past I find more disturbing statement that shows red flags.

"Bixler and others have cited additional ways in which Kutcher showed questionable behavior in the past, specifically pointing to a 2003 video of the actor speaking on his MTV show “Punk’d” about actress Hilary Duff. In the video, Kutcher says Duff, who was a minor at the time, is “one of the girls that we’re all waiting for to turn 18. Along with the Olsen twins.”"

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 40 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Back then, that was a pretty damn normal thing for people to say. It’s really awful that that it was so normal, but hopefully most people regret saying things like that now.

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[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 39 points 2 years ago

danny was already convicted of the rapes when kutcher wrote the letter, saying that danny was an outstanding citizen.

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[–] jkmooney@kbin.social 194 points 2 years ago (25 children)

I don't know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I'm not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.

[–] Backspacecentury@kbin.social 130 points 2 years ago (7 children)

While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 158 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

He's also an old friend.

I don't believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn't get it, doesn't make them monsters or rapists by proxy.

If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.

Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn't all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.

Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our "justice," lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people... that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee's failure to confirm their biases.

Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn't be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it's convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 55 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Or... we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don't give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don't need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

Thank you for making my point.

Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?

So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 64 points 2 years ago (23 children)

Don't be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution... AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse... I'd absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.

There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There's zero chance that I'd do anything to "put in a good word" for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.

Tl;Dr: If you're vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn't being a duplicitous rapist... that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren't raping. You're also a victim.

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[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 36 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Except this isn't about Masterson. This is about Kutcher's support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that's not a friend. That's someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you've hidden that from me, I'm not going to tell a judge you're an otherwise good person that shouldn't be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.

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[–] Cheems@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago

Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However.. the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That's a bad fucking look. That's a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he's done look.

[–] reverendsteveii@sopuli.xyz 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

It doesn't make them rapists by proxy, but it does make them someone who believes the rapist they like should be the exception.

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[–] Laticauda@lemmy.ca 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn't grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they're free to do that. But disapproving of that isn't guilt by association, that's just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

They said he was a role model

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[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 61 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.

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[–] Windshear@lemmy.ca 26 points 2 years ago (10 children)

Get out of here with your reason. That's not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (4 children)
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[–] QHC@lemmy.one 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think it's fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That's a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.

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[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.

[–] reverendsteveii@sopuli.xyz 15 points 2 years ago

Condemn him? No. Judge him? Yeah, a little bit.

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[–] Limeey@lemmy.world 94 points 2 years ago (9 children)

I don’t get what they were thinking, how could they write a character letter for a convinced rapist? “Ya but he never raped us!”

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 45 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Someone in a comment a few days ago, who was themselves asked to write such a letter for someone they knew who was charged and ultimately convicted, made an excellent observation:

Defense attorneys are very likely to have requested those character reference letters way before the case even made it to trial. So it's entirely possible that Kutcher and Kunis wrote those letters long ago, based on information they had at the time, probably thinking the charges were unfounded.

Now, obviously, the easy solution to that would be if they were to come out now and tell whether that happened or not, and make clear what they think now. Which is what I would do, but I'm also not a Hollywoo celebrity with publicists and handlers and lawyers.

[–] Philolurker@lemm.ee 86 points 2 years ago (5 children)

If I'm not mistaken, Kutcher's letter actually referenced the verdict.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 44 points 2 years ago (5 children)
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[–] RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip 37 points 2 years ago

Yeah my understanding was that these were post conviction. And if that were the case why weren’t there a bunch more letters from all the other cast members. Unless they knew. I bet Topher knew..

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[–] sara@lemmy.today 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

But he mentors other actors! And he doesn’t take drugs!

I really don’t know what either of them were thinking. Rapists don’t need leniency, especially in this situation.

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[–] Anestoh@lemm.ee 79 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fuck websites that make the video follow you while you scroll.

[–] Lifecoach5000@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thanks for saving me a click bud

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[–] vis4valentine@lemmy.ml 76 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Well, it is not as much as a "non profit fighting human trafficking" as they sell it. It is a tech org that sells facial recognition technology to law enforcement, that doesn't really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.

It is what happens when tech Bros want to try and save the world without really listening to the vulnerable people they are trying to "help".

Now his hypocrisy was exposed for defending a convicted rapist because "he was nice to me" no shit Ashton, im sure Epstein was also nice to his friends.

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[–] sndmn@lemmy.ca 61 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I wonder how many others were raped by Danny but didn't get their day in court?

[–] Hiuhokiguess@reddthat.com 19 points 2 years ago

That’s the real question, highly likely there’s others.

[–] SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wow, there a a lot of people here defending a rapist apologist.

Disappointing.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 120 points 2 years ago (9 children)

People are complicated. We can say he did good things for kids while also doing bad things like defending Masterson. We can admit it must be hard for him to condemn his friend while also still saying he still needed to.

People can do both good and bad things, we can say the good things he did are good while also saying he shouldn't have done bad things.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 44 points 2 years ago

People like you are not good for my pitchfork and torch business.

[–] phillaholic@lemm.ee 22 points 2 years ago (2 children)

He could have not written a letter of support or condemnation. Sometimes no comment is the right way.

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[–] stopthatgirl7@kbin.social 32 points 2 years ago (2 children)

He and Kunis are learning the hard lesson of “shutting up is free.”

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[–] FoundTheVegan@kbin.social 22 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The fact that Ashton was not aware about the numerous sexual assaults coming from the church of scientology is really damming. Sure, he can be biased about long term friend/coworker, it's messed up to write charcter letters after the victim testimony when the went in to the details of what Masterson did, but to turn a blind eye to scientology? And you care about victims? About. trafficking? About SA? Fuck off.

Clearly they were never serious about Thorn and was likely only a PR move. At least Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith haven't spent the last couple years telling people to believe victims. Still gross, but Ashton put him self on this pedestal. Kunis to a lesser extent, since she wasnt a founder. But I am just so disappointed at all of these people.

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